Political leaders, convictions, wind sniffing and weasels.

GDPR

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Simon Harris; His views on abortion up to 2012;

At a private meeting amongst colleagues, I raised concerns about legislating for abortion in Ireland, adding that should such a scenario arise, I would have grave difficulty supporting it. The next day I read about my comments in the media.
… I have a strongly held view on this and I need to stand by that belief.


Fine Gael TD Simon Harris also sent an anxious e-mail in the final week of the campaign assuring PLC [Pro Life Campaign] that: “I am happy and proud to assure you I am pro-life.”

Mr Harris added the nervous plea of: “Please be assured of my support. I need No 1 votes on Friday so I can be in a position to support these positions in Dail Eireann.”


2018;

“The idea of a woman in crisis sitting in front of her doctor & her doctor refusing to refer flies in face of care & compassion & is not reflective of doctors I know. People spoke & want women to be cared for. Conscientious objection -yes. No referral or info -no.”



Our esteemed national political leader, up to 2012.

“I would accept a lot of Catholic social teaching. I’m not a practising religious person, but I would accept that. I wouldn’t be in favour of abortion…”

Abortion in the case of rape;

“I wouldn’t be in favour of it in that case, and, you know, first of all, it isn’t the child’s fault that they’re the child of rape. You can say the same thing about disabled children. You know, some people would make that argument in favour of abortion. It’s not their fault they’re disabled. I wouldn’t be in favour of it in those circumstances either.”

“Even, how would that work practically? Would someone have to prove that they’ve been raped? I think where that’s been brought in in countries it has more or less led to abortion on demand.”

Up to 2015;

“I consider myself pro-life, as I accept that the unborn is a human life with rights and I do not support abortion on request or on demand”

2018;

"I don't think that a six-week-old foetus has the same right to life as my sister."

"What we've had in Ireland is a very convenient safety valve."

"We've allowed abortion to continue by just turning a blind eye and I don't think that's right. That's not what a modern society should do."



Shallow much?

I would finish by describing them both very deservedly as I see them, but what did slimeballs ever do to me to deserve to be in the same bucket as those two, but as no doubt at least two thirds of you will say, they may be backsliding gutless slimeballs, but they’re our backsliding gutless slimeballs and I'd reply; it's very welcome you are to them.

We get the politicians we deserve and has that ever been more true?
 


Dame_Enda

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Well then Savita happened.
 

'orebel

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What about Mickey Martin?

And sailor?

:lol:
 
D

Deleted member 48908

In 2012, Donald Trump was a reality television show host.

Yesterday he brought peace to the Korean Peninsula.

If a week is a long time in politics, six years is an eon.
 

devnull

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Messages
1,833
...
Shallow much?

I would finish by describing them both very deservedly as I see them, but what did slimeballs ever do to me to deserve to be in the same bucket as those two, but as no doubt at least two thirds of you will say, they may be backsliding gutless slimeballs, but they’re our backsliding gutless slimeballs and I'd reply; it's very welcome you are to them.

We get the politicians we deserve and has that ever been more true?
Many FGers changed their minds about abortion in the years leading upto the referendum.
Most of FF changed their mind about it in the minutes after the first exit poll came out.
 

Mitsui2

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Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
32,380
Simon Harris; His views on abortion up to 2012;

At a private meeting amongst colleagues, I raised concerns about legislating for abortion in Ireland, adding that should such a scenario arise, I would have grave difficulty supporting it. The next day I read about my comments in the media.
… I have a strongly held view on this and I need to stand by that belief.


Fine Gael TD Simon Harris also sent an anxious e-mail in the final week of the campaign assuring PLC [Pro Life Campaign] that: “I am happy and proud to assure you I am pro-life.”

Mr Harris added the nervous plea of: “Please be assured of my support. I need No 1 votes on Friday so I can be in a position to support these positions in Dail Eireann.”


2018;

“The idea of a woman in crisis sitting in front of her doctor & her doctor refusing to refer flies in face of care & compassion & is not reflective of doctors I know. People spoke & want women to be cared for. Conscientious objection -yes. No referral or info -no.”



Our esteemed national political leader, up to 2012.

“I would accept a lot of Catholic social teaching. I’m not a practising religious person, but I would accept that. I wouldn’t be in favour of abortion…”

Abortion in the case of rape;

“I wouldn’t be in favour of it in that case, and, you know, first of all, it isn’t the child’s fault that they’re the child of rape. You can say the same thing about disabled children. You know, some people would make that argument in favour of abortion. It’s not their fault they’re disabled. I wouldn’t be in favour of it in those circumstances either.”

“Even, how would that work practically? Would someone have to prove that they’ve been raped? I think where that’s been brought in in countries it has more or less led to abortion on demand.”

Up to 2015;

“I consider myself pro-life, as I accept that the unborn is a human life with rights and I do not support abortion on request or on demand”

2018;

"I don't think that a six-week-old foetus has the same right to life as my sister."

"What we've had in Ireland is a very convenient safety valve."

"We've allowed abortion to continue by just turning a blind eye and I don't think that's right. That's not what a modern society should do."



Shallow much?

I would finish by describing them both very deservedly as I see them, but what did slimeballs ever do to me to deserve to be in the same bucket as those two, but as no doubt at least two thirds of you will say, they may be backsliding gutless slimeballs, but they’re our backsliding gutless slimeballs and I'd reply; it's very welcome you are to them.

We get the politicians we deserve and has that ever been more true?
Welcome back!

From the continuity of "no pasaran" in the sig I take it that it has conveniently changed meaning yet again?
 

SuirView

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Joined
Mar 29, 2012
Messages
12,803
Simon Harris; His views on abortion up to 2012;

At a private meeting amongst colleagues, I raised concerns about legislating for abortion in Ireland, adding that should such a scenario arise, I would have grave difficulty supporting it. The next day I read about my comments in the media.
… I have a strongly held view on this and I need to stand by that belief.


Fine Gael TD Simon Harris also sent an anxious e-mail in the final week of the campaign assuring PLC [Pro Life Campaign] that: “I am happy and proud to assure you I am pro-life.”

Mr Harris added the nervous plea of: “Please be assured of my support. I need No 1 votes on Friday so I can be in a position to support these positions in Dail Eireann.”


2018;

“The idea of a woman in crisis sitting in front of her doctor & her doctor refusing to refer flies in face of care & compassion & is not reflective of doctors I know. People spoke & want women to be cared for. Conscientious objection -yes. No referral or info -no.”



Our esteemed national political leader, up to 2012.

“I would accept a lot of Catholic social teaching. I’m not a practising religious person, but I would accept that. I wouldn’t be in favour of abortion…”

Abortion in the case of rape;

“I wouldn’t be in favour of it in that case, and, you know, first of all, it isn’t the child’s fault that they’re the child of rape. You can say the same thing about disabled children. You know, some people would make that argument in favour of abortion. It’s not their fault they’re disabled. I wouldn’t be in favour of it in those circumstances either.”

“Even, how would that work practically? Would someone have to prove that they’ve been raped? I think where that’s been brought in in countries it has more or less led to abortion on demand.”

Up to 2015;

“I consider myself pro-life, as I accept that the unborn is a human life with rights and I do not support abortion on request or on demand”

2018;

"I don't think that a six-week-old foetus has the same right to life as my sister."

"What we've had in Ireland is a very convenient safety valve."

"We've allowed abortion to continue by just turning a blind eye and I don't think that's right. That's not what a modern society should do."



Shallow much?

I would finish by describing them both very deservedly as I see them, but what did slimeballs ever do to me to deserve to be in the same bucket as those two, but as no doubt at least two thirds of you will say, they may be backsliding gutless slimeballs, but they’re our backsliding gutless slimeballs and I'd reply; it's very welcome you are to them.

We get the politicians we deserve and has that ever been more true?
You lost.
Get over it.
 

Mitsui2

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Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
32,380
Thank you and it never changes, that really is the whole point.
I find that one of the weirder things about p.ie is you can kinda grow a certain type of respect for people. You and I are chalk and cheese - which of us is which being arguable but immaterial.

But compared to some of the loo-lah "no pasaran" barking Trumpian types on here these days, you at least are coming from a place that has some inherent concept of honour and good intent. So lay on MacDuff.
 

gooner

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Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
1,865
Whatever you say about Coppinger and all the lefties in the Dail, at least their position for repeal was genuine. I will add in others like Kate O'Connell to that. And I say that as someone who is no fan of these people, but at the same time you know where you stood with them.

The same can't be said for Varadkar, Harris, Martin, Doherty, etc who just went with the flow as they gauged how public opinion went.

To this day we have never got an opinion from Kenny on repeal. That is just unbelievable and they just hid behind the Citizens Assembly as a cop out to give an opinion.

From the pro-life viewpoint, it was frustrating to see the pro-life TDs stay silent over the years. That gave added momentum to the above politicians to shout repeal over the years with little to counter it in return. This to me is unforgivable considering the platform and influence they had.

Especially when there was a number of them that could have adequately spoken up.
 

sondagefaux

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Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
15,515
Micheál Martin, Weasel or Wise?

[video=youtube;PnvwWEdOG8M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnvwWEdOG8M[/video]
TheJournal.ie
Published on 13 Feb 2013
The Fianna Fáil leader gave a wide-ranging interview to TheJournal.ie this week. Read more here: http://jrnl.ie/794612 (13 February 2013)
Ireland’s opposition leader changes mind on abortion
Micheál Martin said he is now in favor of liberalizing the country’s strict laws.

By GIULIA PARAVICINI 2/11/18, 6:13 PM CET Updated 2/11/18, 6:14 PM CET

Irish opposition leader Micheál Martin said he changed his mind and is now in favor of liberalizing the country’s strict anti-abortion laws.

“There were two things that changed my mind on the issue. The first was hearing evidence before Christmas from women who suffered from fatal fetal abnormalities while pregnant,” he told the Guardian in an interview on Sunday.


“After hearing their experiences in the Oireachtas [Irish parliament] and what they had to go through traveling to England for terminations, I realized I could no longer countenance supporting the status quo,” he added.
https://www.politico.eu/article/micheal-martin-abortion-ireland-opposition-leader-changes-mind/

Shallow much?

I would finish by describing him very deservedly as I see him, but what did the slimeball ever do to me to deserve to be in the same bucket as this one, but as no doubt at least one quarter of you will say, he may be a backsliding gutless slimeball, but he's my backsliding gutless slimeball and I'd reply; it's very welcome you are to him.

We get the politicians we deserve and has that ever been more true?
 
Last edited:

sondagefaux

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Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
15,515
There's an awful smell of gammon about the place these days.

On February 7th, 2018, Urban Dictionary [5] user Dr Buckles defined the term as:

"A term used to describe a particular type of Brexit-voting, middle-aged white male, whose meat-faced complexion suggests they are perilously close to a stroke.

"The term 'gammon' is linked to the unhealthy pink skin tone of such stout yeomen, probably because of high blood pressure caused by decades of 'PC gone mad', being defeated in arguments about the non-existent merits of Brexit and women getting the vote.

"Gammon often make their appearance on BBC's Question Time jabbing their porcine fingers at the camera while demanding immediate nuclear strikes against Remain-voting areas, people who eat vegetables and/or cyclists.

"When gammon appears en masse it is often referred to as a "wall of gammon".


Irish Gammon - racist/sexist/homophobic/xenophobic - whinge about the changes that have taken place in Irish society over the past 50 years or so (all the things that have made it better), a fair few of them are anti-EU too.

Gammon, the traditional pork steak commonly served in British pubs, has become the subject of unlikely uproar on Twitter.

Members of the British left have been invoking the hearty cut – routinely served with a fried egg and chips or a limp pineapple ring – as an insult with which to describe red-faced conservative men and Ukippers ranting about Brexit.

Those on the right have been quick to counter that the term is racist on the grounds that it is intended to maliciously offend people based on the colour of their skin. The counter-counter-argument is that the right frequently complain about the prevalence of “identity politics” in public debate and now look ridiculous atop their high horses given the huge number of derogatory terms they cast about online to smear their political opponents.

As comedy writer David Schneider neatly summarises:

David Schneider
@davidschneider
Alt right: “Snowflake! Cuck! Remoaner! Libtard! Beta! SJW! Triggered!”

Left: “Gammon!”

Alt right: “How dare you call people names!"

4:49 PM - May 14, 2018
Anoosh Chakelian of The New Statesman has traced the first use of “gammon” back to Times columnist Caitlin Moran, who described former prime minister David Cameron as a “C-3PO made of ham” and a “slightly camp gammon robot”. Alas, this would not be the last time Mr Cameron would find his name unfavourably connected with a dead pig.

Twitter user @Protooptimism tracked the coinage back even further, noting that Charles Dickens employed it in the pages of Nicholas Nickleby (1839):

“The general impression seemed to be, that as an explanation of Mr Gregsbury’s political conduct, it did not enter quite enough into detail; and one gentleman in the rear did not scruple to remark aloud, that, for his purpose, it savoured rather too much of a ‘gammon’ tendency.”

“’The meaning of that term – gammon,’ said Mr Gregsbury, ‘is unknown to me. If it means that I grow a little too fervid, or perhaps even hyperbolical, in extolling my native land, I admit the full justice of the remark. I AM proud of this free and happy country. My form dilates, my eye glistens, my breast heaves, my heart swells, my bosom burns, when I call to mind her greatness and her glory.”

Gregsbury is an MP prone to justifying the various misdemeanours and hypocrisies complained about by his constituents on the grounds that he is all too often carried away by patriotic sentiment. “I clasp my hands, and turning my eyes to the broad expanse above my head, exclaim, ‘Thank Heaven, I am a Briton!’”.

Dickens actually intended the phrase “gammon tendency” to mean “bogus” or ”disingenuous” but Mr Gregsbury otherwise perfectly matches the description of his entitled modern counterpart.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gammon-left-wing-political-insult-twitter-racism-debate-right-charles-dickens-a8352281.html
 
Last edited:

Paddy{ie

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Messages
1,468
Many FGers changed their minds about abortion in the years leading upto the referendum.
Most of FF changed their mind about it in the minutes after the first exit poll came out.
The ‘many FGers’ had to wait until Varadkar announced (on the BBC) what way de party we’re going to vote. Then, and only then, did they start giving interviews on the matter.
 

GDPR

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Messages
217,846
There's an awful smell of gammon about the place these days.



Irish Gammon - racist/sexist/homophobic/xenophobic - whinge about the changes that have taken place in Irish society over the past 50 years or so (all the things that have made it better), a fair few of them are anti-EU too.
When ending human life for personal convenience is "for the better" you might have a point, until then all you have is completely innocent blood on your hands.

Some "progress" that.
 

GDPR

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Messages
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Micheál Martin, Weasel or Wise?
My own view is weasel, but that doesn't matter because he's neither the country's political leader nor its minister for health now so very enthusiastically wrapping himself in the pro abortion cloak.

In the years ahead when the question is asked "politically, who gave us this holocaust of thousands", the answer won't be Michael Martin.
 

gerhard dengler

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Feb 3, 2011
Messages
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Whatever you say about Coppinger and all the lefties in the Dail, at least their position for repeal was genuine. I will add in others like Kate O'Connell to that. And I say that as someone who is no fan of these people, but at the same time you know where you stood with them.

The same can't be said for Varadkar, Harris, Martin, Doherty, etc who just went with the flow as they gauged how public opinion went.

To this day we have never got an opinion from Kenny on repeal. That is just unbelievable and they just hid behind the Citizens Assembly as a cop out to give an opinion.

From the pro-life viewpoint, it was frustrating to see the pro-life TDs stay silent over the years. That gave added momentum to the above politicians to shout repeal over the years with little to counter it in return. This to me is unforgivable considering the platform and influence they had.

Especially when there was a number of them that could have adequately spoken up.
Fine Gael have made the cynical political calculation that the lives of the unborn are now a political bargaining chip.

Fg/FF/lab cumulatively hold fewer seats in every successive general election. You only have to look at the cumulative number of seats held by all three parties following 2007, 2011 and 2016 elections. Each year cumulatively, they retain fewer and fewer seats, and they make the likes of sinn fein more electable.

To try to retain political power, these parties have decided to remove the right to life from our constitution.
 


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