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Politicians letting the side down?


ger12

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Feb 25, 2011
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I thought the submissions over the last three days by all the various stake holders in the Oireachtas abortion hearings to be quite civil. It is unfortunate that however that two Senators have engaged in behavior that is perhaps a tad unbecoming of their position and in contrast to those invited to speak at the hearings.

RTE 6 o'clock news reported that independent Senator Crown tweeted during today's submissions that "every time they speak I lapse a little more". While Labour Senator Ivana Bacik accused the Catholic Bishops of opposing the legislation on the basis of “misogyny towards women” and a belief in the “innate deceitfulness of women”. Of course they are entitled to their opinions (which many of us agree with) but shouldn't these legislators have had more manners?

https://twitter.com/ProfJohnCrown
Senator Ivana Bacik: Catholic Bishops ‘hate women’
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/senator-ivana-bacik-catholic-bishops-hate-women-3348477.html
 

johnfás

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It is unfortunate and if a legislator has something to say they should say it to the floor rather than tweeting it. It's just childish but it does go down well in some quarters.

Ivana is just being Ivana. Everybody is used to her meandering at this stage and she has little credibility even with people who agree with her.
 

harshreality

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Not a very clever remark from Bacik, but then again she needs to get noticed somehow.

And there are probably many Bishops out there who love women!
 

Hewson

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Bacik is to public office what Hitler is to market gardening.
 

ger12

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Should they have their hands slapped by their colleagues? When you consider Minister Rabbittes thoughts last week, perhaps politicians should ensure that all their colleagues behave in a manner that is respectful?
 
J

john moriarty

...It is unfortunate that however that two Senators have engaged in behavior that is perhaps a tad unbecoming of their position and in contrast to those invited to speak at the hearings....
I don't agree. We can be too
deferential (in public anyway)
Maybe a bit more directness
would help us all in the long
run - and not just in politics.

* I've mis-read ger12s post.
Crown was rude to tweet mid
session. Not so sure though
where Bacik went wrong.
 
Last edited:

johnfás

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Should they have their hands slapped by their colleagues? When you consider Minister Rabbittes thoughts last week, perhaps politicians should ensure that all their colleagues behave in a manner that is respectful?
Such people generally just lose credibility and that's enough surely. Ivana can't get herself elected in elections outside of Trinity precisely because of her outbursts. It would of course be a breath of fresh air if parliamentary colleagues, particularly own party colleagues, did from time to time say "what X said is frankly ridiculous" but that would be nice across the board not just in respect of her.

More to the point re John Crown there shouldn't be tweeting during a meeting. I work in business. If I took out my phone during a meeting and tweeted my clients would give me the heave ho and rightly so. That's just common courtesy. He's more than entitled to watch it on the tv and tweet about it but once he goes into the meeting he should be expected to pay attention. That's what he's paid for.


I agree with your initial point though. The last few days showed what a functioning democrat can look like. Experts, politicians and civil society groups all politely listening to each other. I disagree with William Binchy but he is a nice polite man and I'm more than happy to hear his contribution and the discussion is richer for it.
 

Mountaintop

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Torn on this one. The tweeting incident, is to my mind patently rude, akin to disengaging someone mid sentence to talk to someone else.

As for Ivana's comment...whilst I don't share much of her views, I'm glad that she bluntly questioned the views of the clergy. I think as a society, we need to ask more direct unpleasant question of all those who previously were shown deference by default...I include politicians, solicitors, doctors and teachers in that.
 

EvotingMachine0197

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Feb 17, 2006
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Torn on this one. The tweeting incident, is to my mind patently rude, akin to disengaging someone mid sentence to talk to someone else.

As for Ivana's comment...whilst I don't share much of her views, I'm glad that she bluntly questioned the views of the clergy. I think as a society, we need to ask more direct unpleasant question of all those who previously were shown deference by default...I include politicians, solicitors, doctors and teachers in that.
This. On both points.
 

ger12

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Feb 25, 2011
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Torn on this one. The tweeting incident, is to my mind patently rude, akin to disengaging someone mid sentence to talk to someone else.

As for Ivana's comment...whilst I don't share much of her views, I'm glad that she bluntly questioned the views of the clergy. I think as a society, we need to ask more direct unpleasant question of all those who previously were shown deference by default...I include politicians, solicitors, doctors and teachers in that.
I agree with that. However there's a time and place for this isn't there?
 

cricket

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Anybody tweeting, etc. during a meeting is being downright rude. If Bacik posted her views later, I would have no problem with that.
 

gerhard dengler

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Feb 3, 2011
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47,554
I thought the submissions over the last three days by all the various stake holders in the Oireachtas abortion hearings to be quite civil. It is unfortunate that however that two Senators have engaged in behavior that is perhaps a tad unbecoming of their position and in contrast to those invited to speak at the hearings.

RTE 6 o'clock news reported that independent Senator Crown tweeted during today's submissions that "every time they speak I lapse a little more". While Labour Senator Ivana Bacik accused the Catholic Bishops of opposing the legislation on the basis of “misogyny towards women” and a belief in the “innate deceitfulness of women”. Of course they are entitled to their opinions (which many of us agree with) but shouldn't these legislators have had more manners?

https://twitter.com/ProfJohnCrown
Senator Ivana Bacik: Catholic Bishops ‘hate women’
Senator Ivana Bacik: Catholic Bishops ‘hate women’ - National News - Independent.ie
I did notice that having put his questions to the Pro Life delegation this morning, Crown didn't bother to remain in the chamber to listen to their answers to his questions.
 

johnfás

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Feb 22, 2007
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Ivana and the Iona Institute are very much cut from the same cloth. The only difference is some people here agree with one or the other and as a consequence think they're great irrespective. A fair number of us may share part of the philosophical view of one or the one but think they're both as bad as each other. I would see that very much as the point here.

The majority on both sides of any argument were both brought up with good manners but some are not; on both sides.
 

carlovian

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Jun 20, 2008
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5,085
It is unfortunate and if a legislator has something to say they should say it to the floor rather than tweeting it. It's just childish but it does go down well in some quarters.

Ivana is just being Ivana. Everybody is used to her meandering at this stage and she has little credibility even with people who agree with her.
John drennan had a line on Ivana that she had an opinion on everything but knows nothing about anything.

And that's John drennan.
 

ger12

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Feb 25, 2011
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And today was not as good a place as any? Given the extensive media coverage and the two bishops sitting across the room.
I found it very heartening that we had three days of submissions by a range of "stakeholders" invited by our politicians to discuss the most emotive issue of abortion in Ireland and it overall was handled by the Chairman and those invited to speak in a considered and respectful manner.

I do think it was poor taste of Sen Bacik to attack her guests (even though I agree with what she said). Prof Crown behaved like a teenage pop star.
 

Hewson

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I found it very heartening that we had three days of submissions by a range of "stakeholders" invited by our politicians to discuss the most emotive issue of abortion in Ireland and it overall was handled by the Chairman and those invited to speak in a considered and respectful manner.

I do think it was poor taste of Sen Bacik to attack her guests (even though I agree with what she said). Prof Crown behaved like a teenage pop star.
Pity. I had great respect for Crown.

He just won't sound as credible in future.
 
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