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Poots 'completely out of touch', who would have guessed?


theloner

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Edwin Poots who believes a god created the Earth in six days, has once again drawn criticism regards his stance on abortion. Poots who, last month, bizarrely asked the PSNI to regulate an independent abortion clinic opening in Belfast has been branded 'out of touch'. I mention his bizarre but entitled beliefs regards the age of the Earth because in 2009 Poots declared “I am a Bible-believing Christian and I do not see that will impact in any way, shape or form on my role as Health Minister,”. He quite obviously lied. I wonder if Poots has ever heard of fossils, but I digress.

A recent Belfast Telegraph poll showed a total of 45% of people surveyed were either for legalising abortion or making it available for victims of rape or incest. Social policy lecturer at the University of Ulster, Goretti Horgan, said Mr Poots was “completely out of touch” on the issue of abortion,“I do think there are a lot of reasons why he is out of touch and one is the Belfast Telegraph’s poll,” she said.

“That, along with other polls that have shown in relation to abortion regarding rape or foetal abnormalities, a large proportion — more than half — are in support,” she added.

On the back of the horrendous death of Savita Halappanavar in Galway, is it not time these dinosaurs (Does Edwin think dinosaurs roamed the Earth?) woke up and stopped putting politics and books ahead of the health of women, particularly when a woman's life is at risk. As David Ford said said: “Edwin Poots has his own beliefs and is entitled to hold them. The Department of the Environment must, however, operate using the best available scientific evidence when making decisions''. Except in this case swap the word 'environment' for 'health'.

Poots should realise with falling church attendances comes a more relaxed attitude on social issues. Interestingly Poots is out of step with his beloved Britain, where the Abortion Act of 1967 that legalised abortions by registered practitioners, and regulated the free provision of such medical practices through the (NHS) does not apply here. He was also a loggerheads with Britain last year when, since November gay men in Britain have been encouraged to give blood if they have not been sexually active for a year, Poots however, bans them for life.

Abortion laws: Health Minister Edwin Poots branded out of touch as poll piles pressure on minister - Northern Ireland, Local & National - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk
 

former wesleyan

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Whoopee.....another DUP fish shot in the barrell. Could you not aim a little higher ? A bishop or something.
 

theloner

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Whoopee.....another DUP fish shot in the barrell. Could you not aim a little higher ? A bishop or something.
And how many bishops are health ministers? Zero, and rightfully so, just like this fundamentalist shouldn't be anywhere near the post he currently holds.
 

Billy the Prod

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So the DUP basher is at his work again?

Marvellous.
 

harry_w

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Edwin Poots who believes a god created the Earth in six days, has once again drawn criticism regards his stance on abortion. Poots who, last month, bizarrely asked the PSNI to regulate an independent abortion clinic opening in Belfast has been branded 'out of touch'. I mention his bizarre but entitled beliefs regards the age of the Earth because in 2009 Poots declared “I am a Bible-believing Christian and I do not see that will impact in any way, shape or form on my role as Health Minister,”. He quite obviously lied. I wonder if Poots has ever heard of fossils, but I digress.

A recent Belfast Telegraph poll showed a total of 45% of people surveyed were either for legalising abortion or making it available for victims of rape or incest. Social policy lecturer at the University of Ulster, Goretti Horgan, said Mr Poots was “completely out of touch” on the issue of abortion,“I do think there are a lot of reasons why he is out of touch and one is the Belfast Telegraph’s poll,” she said.

“That, along with other polls that have shown in relation to abortion regarding rape or foetal abnormalities, a large proportion — more than half — are in support,” she added.


On the back of the horrendous death of Savita Halappanavar in Galway, is it not time these dinosaurs (Does Edwin think dinosaurs roamed the Earth?) woke up and stopped putting politics and books ahead of the health of women, particularly when a woman's life is at risk. As David Ford said said: “Edwin Poots has his own beliefs and is entitled to hold them. The Department of the Environment must, however, operate using the best available scientific evidence when making decisions''. Except in this case swap the word 'environment' for 'health'.

Poots should realise with falling church attendances comes a more relaxed attitude on social issues. Interestingly Poots is out of step with his beloved Britain, where the Abortion Act of 1967 that legalised abortions by registered practitioners, and regulated the free provision of such medical practices through the (NHS) does not apply here. He was also a loggerheads with Britain last year when, since November gay men in Britain have been encouraged to give blood if they have not been sexually active for a year, Poots however, bans them for life.

Abortion laws: Health Minister Edwin Poots branded out of touch as poll piles pressure on minister - Northern Ireland, Local & National - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk
How can a social policy lecturer say Poots is out of touch if he agrees with the majority of people surveyed?

It sounds as though the 45% was 2 options added together, pro-abortion + only in cases of rape/incest. Ah here's the poll:

Abortion: 45% want a liberalisation of the law in Northern Ireland - Northern Ireland, Local & National - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk

The findings come from a major survey commissioned by the Belfast Telegraph and carried out by LucidTalk, members of the British Polling Council (BPC).

A weighted sample of 1,130 adults was surveyed between November 6 and 23; 90% were questioned by telephone and the rest interviewed face to face.

They were asked: “Free abortion is currently allowed in Northern Ireland where there is the likelihood of serious and long-term danger to a prospective mother’s mental or physical wellbeing if her pregnancy continues. Which, if any, of these statements do you agree with?”

The first of four options was: “Abortion should be available to any woman who chooses it after being counselled on alternatives.”

This is marginally more liberal than the situation which applies in the rest of the UK, where the approval of two doctors is required.

The results showed that 25.9% agreed with this proposition. The proportion agreeing was roughly the same across the two main religious groups (28.3% of Protestants and 27.8% of Catholics).

But support was markedly higher among all women surveyed (29.9%) than men (21.4%). It was higher among the young, 34.9% for 18-24-year-olds, and fell gradually through the age range until it reached a low of 20.4% for those over 65.

...

A second option was: “Abortion should be available for rape or incest victims who choose it after counselling.”

This was the specific category ruled out by Jim Wells, the DUP politician earmarked to take over as Health Minister. Some 18.6% of those surveyed agreed. This was most popular among women (19.4%) and those over 65 (22.7%).

...

The statement that: “This situation should be kept as it is” was endorsed by 26.9% of the population. However, the pollsters included those who did not express an opinion or who didn’t know in this group, effectively giving the status quo the benefit of the doubt.

A further substantial group (26.5%) believed that abortion should only be allowed “if the mother is likely to die if the pregnancy continues”. This would mark a tightening of current practice. The most restrictive option was that: “Abortion is no better than shooting a child in the head and should be treated as murder”. It was favoured by only 2% of the sample, all of them men.
Liam Clarke is also opining on politicians being 'out of touch':

There is a pro-life consensus running which unites the SDLP and the two unionist parties, while Sinn Fein is also fairly conservative on the issue and Alliance has no firm position. The issue is generally debated in Stormont in terms of stabilising the status quo.

That is not the way it is on the streets. Our poll shows a wide divergence of opinion on the issue, perhaps sharpened by the debate around the Marie Stopes clinic.

The death of Savita Halappanavar (right) occurred in Galway a week before polling started and it coincided with an ongoing campaign by her family to have Ireland’s abortion laws, broadly similar to our own, liberalised.

This LucidTalk poll is no flash in the pan or kneejerk reaction to tragic events. In February and March another company, Millward Brown, surveyed 1,376 people across the province for the Family Planning Association with different questions. It found that 59% of people favoured abortion when a pregnancy is a result of rape or incest, and only a third of people, 32%, opposing it where “the baby is at risk of serious and permanent defects”.

This is not a consensus for change, but it does highlight the need for a more open debate than we get at Stormont. When we break down the people who we counted as favouring no change on abortion we found that more than a quarter of them (28%) actually had no firm opinion.
Ah, I see who lucid talk are now, Gerry Lynch analyst ...
On the vexed question of abortion, opinions were predictably split in many directions: 26% believed that any woman should have access to abortion after counselling; 19% felt it should be available to rape or incest victims only; 26% that it should be only available in the event of a threat to the life of the mother, while a further 27% supported the retention of the status quo. Only a tiny proportion of respondents (two per cent) felt that abortion in any circumstances should be treated as murder.

There was little difference in the level of support for abortion on demand after counselling by religion — the level of support for this option was identical among Catholics, Protestants and those of other or no religion. Although this may be surprising given the Catholic Church’s trenchant opposition to abortion, it parallels the pattern of support found in other mixed Protestant/Catholic countries such as Germany and the United States.

There was also little difference in attitudes to abortion by social class. However, there were sharp differences of opinion by gender.

By a clear 30% to 21%, women were more likely than men to support abortion on demand after counselling.

Men were more likely than women (by 28% to 25%) to support the idea that abortion should be further restricted than at present in Northern Ireland, by permitting it only in the case where there is a threat to the life of the mother.

There were also sharp differences of opinion by age, with 18-24-year-olds by far the most likely respondents (35%) to support the provision of abortion on demand after counselling.

Gerry Lynch is a LucidTalk analyst
It's one of these 'polls' commissioned to shape a debate and influence opinion rather than reflect it. Newspapers seeking to drive their own agendas are often up to this sort of thing (see Irish Times poll last week).

Hence the misrepresentation of the poll results and party positions in the editorial presentation. The Belfast Telegraph is just the NIO in print -- presumably all other media channels have been coordinated.

Liam Clarke and Gerry Lynch. :rolleyes:
 

Mickeymac

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Potts is an a$$hole big time, hope Secretary Clinton tells him that next Friday....end of.
 

SgtBilko

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He was also a loggerheads with Britain last year when, since November gay men in Britain have been encouraged to give blood if they have not been sexually active for a year, Poots however, bans them for life.
^ Why did you wait until the last sentence of your incredibly tedious (again) opening post, before detailing the real reason you have an issue with the Health Minister?

There's nothing as tedious as a (drama) queen scorned, I suppose.
 

Mickeymac

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^ Why did you wait until the last sentence of your incredibly tedious (again) opening post, before detailing the real reason you have an issue with the Health Minister?

There's nothing as tedious as a (drama) queen scorned, I suppose.



Maybe he has a problem with the ears sir.:lol:
 

theloner

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^ Why did you wait until the last sentence of your incredibly tedious (again) opening post, before detailing the real reason you have an issue with the Health Minister?

There's nothing as tedious as a (drama) queen scorned, I suppose.
Wrong as per usual SgtStalker. Just a little background into how far unionists are out of step with GB. My problem with Poots is the fact his fundamental religious views interfere with his job. Nothing more or nothing less.
 

Mickeymac

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Wrong as per usual SgtStalker. Just a little background into how far unionists are out of step with GB. My problem with Poots is the fact his fundamental religious views interfere with his job. Nothing more or nothing less.

Indeed Loner, I am not happy with folk like him having responsibility for Health in the sick counties, surely that job requires someone who believes hearts, lungs and livers within the human body are much older than 6,000 years.
 

harry_w

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:lol: Just give Poots a Barney the Dinosaur badge.

Poots pledges to finally publish abortion guidelines but won't confirm date - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk By Victoria O'Hara, Saturday, 17 November 2012
Dr Audrey Simpson, director of the pro-choice Family Planning Association (FPA) in Northern Ireland, described the case of Savita Halappanavar in Galway as “tragic”. “It underlines the urgency for Minister Poots to get the guidelines out here,” she said.

“It is an absolute disgrace that these guidelines are not out.” Mr Poots was unavailable. But in a statement issued on behalf of the department, he said: “I fully intend to publish guidance on termination of pregnancy.

“However, the issue has a history of judicial review and I must ensure that any guidance published by my department is robust enough to withstand legal challenge.

“I am considering the full range of issues involved and seeking advice where appropriate.”

Breedagh Hughes of the Royal College of Midwives said they have been calling for the guidelines to be published since 2004.
2004, not since the X-Case then, but long enough anyway. That's the UUP/DUP and direct rulers. :roll:

Anyone know why the 2009 guidelines, prompted by the 2004 Court of Appeal judgement, aren't sufficient?

BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | NI abortion guidelines published Friday, 20 March 2009
The Department of Health has, for the first time, published guidance to health professionals in Northern Ireland on terminating pregnancy.

Abortion is illegal in NI, except when the mother's life is at risk. While the move will not change the law, the guidelines should make clear what is and is not permitted.

The Royal College of Midwives has said they will also bring greater clarity to the legal position of staff who take part in terminations.

...

In 2004 the Court of Appeal ruled that the Department of Health should inquire into the provision of termination services in Northern Ireland.

Up until now there have been no guidelines for nurses, doctors and GPs when they have been faced with terminating a pregnancy.
Poots is for no change in law an NHS monopoly on provision by regulating Marie Stopes private clinic out one way or another: Edwin Poots considering move that could hit Belfast abortion clinic - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk By Noel McAdam, Wednesday, 28 November 2012
At Question Time Traditional Unionist MLA Jim Allister asked the minister whether “to bring certainty and quell the controversy that has arisen from the opening of the Marie Stopes abortion clinic, an option he might consider would be to provide that such termination of pregnancy as may be lawful in certain circumstances could only lawfully be carried out in a National Health Service facility?”

Mr Poots replied: “We are considering all options and are seeking legal advice on all of them with respect to what can be applied in Northern Ireland. The Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority (RQIA) is continuing with its course of work.

“There is different governance for Northern Ireland than for the rest of the UK in that respect. It may be something that can be done simply by giving the RQIA all the responsibility for monitoring all bodies.

“Alternatively, it may be that we only permit abortions to be carried out in a health service facility. All those things are open for discussion. All those things are currently being looked at.”
The poll spin is Liam Clarke's editorial line, on behalf of ???:
Poots' claims on abortion laws invite European challenge - Liam Clarke By Liam Clarke, Friday, 30 November 2012
Abortion in the Republic is governed by the same pre-partition 1861 Offences Against the Person Act as we use here.
That makes the recommendations of the expert group on abortion particularly relevant to us.

Even before the death of Savita Halappanavar in Galway, the Republic already had a European Court of Human Rights judgment - ordering it to provide legal certainty on the issue - hanging over it.

The expert group has advised it that it is unlikely to meet its obligations to Europe without primary legislation either to replace the 1861 Act, or to give legal force to new regulations.

This makes claims by Edwin Poots (right), our health minister, that "the law is clear here ... I will not be bringing anything before the House to change that law" look hollow.

...

Our politicians could watch what happens in Dublin and follow suit. That way, they may get abortion legislation which is likely to be less liberal than in the UK's 1967 Act.
Interesting point on the 1861 Act being common to both jurisdictions, and the spin in advocating an all-Ireland policy in contrast to 'the UK's 1967 Act'.
 

harry_w

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Do we now listen to polls?.. great... the NILT poll towards NI remaining in the UK shows us real hard progress then :)
Obviously a lot of polls are constructed to get the responses required to shape a debate and influence opinion.

That was something the NIO used, via compliant media and 'civil society' fronts, throughout the peace process.

They're about as meaningful as most 'consultation' exercises. :lol:
 

Mickeymac

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Wrong as per usual SgtStalker. Just a little background into how far unionists are out of step with GB. My problem with Poots is the fact his fundamental religious views interfere with his job. Nothing more or nothing less.

More than a fair comment IMO.
 

ArtyisBack

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Edwin Poots who believes a god created the Earth in six days, has once again drawn criticism regards his stance on abortion. Poots who, last month, bizarrely asked the PSNI to regulate an independent abortion clinic opening in Belfast has been branded 'out of touch'. I mention his bizarre but entitled beliefs regards the age of the Earth because in 2009 Poots declared “I am a Bible-believing Christian and I do not see that will impact in any way, shape or form on my role as Health Minister,”. He quite obviously lied. I wonder if Poots has ever heard of fossils, but I digress.

A recent Belfast Telegraph poll showed a total of 45% of people surveyed were either for legalising abortion or making it available for victims of rape or incest. Social policy lecturer at the University of Ulster, Goretti Horgan, said Mr Poots was “completely out of touch” on the issue of abortion,“I do think there are a lot of reasons why he is out of touch and one is the Belfast Telegraph’s poll,” she said.

“That, along with other polls that have shown in relation to abortion regarding rape or foetal abnormalities, a large proportion — more than half — are in support,” she added.

On the back of the horrendous death of Savita Halappanavar in Galway, is it not time these dinosaurs (Does Edwin think dinosaurs roamed the Earth?) woke up and stopped putting politics and books ahead of the health of women, particularly when a woman's life is at risk. As David Ford said said: “Edwin Poots has his own beliefs and is entitled to hold them. The Department of the Environment must, however, operate using the best available scientific evidence when making decisions''. Except in this case swap the word 'environment' for 'health'.

Poots should realise with falling church attendances comes a more relaxed attitude on social issues. Interestingly Poots is out of step with his beloved Britain, where the Abortion Act of 1967 that legalised abortions by registered practitioners, and regulated the free provision of such medical practices through the (NHS) does not apply here. He was also a loggerheads with Britain last year when, since November gay men in Britain have been encouraged to give blood if they have not been sexually active for a year, Poots however, bans them for life.

Abortion laws: Health Minister Edwin Poots branded out of touch as poll piles pressure on minister - Northern Ireland, Local & National - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk
Is this Gorretti Horgan, wife/live with Eamon McCann, of Alliance for Choice, a pro abortion group, of the Socialist Workers Party? It looks as if she is completely out of touch with the people and so, on the same token, resign from her post in the university? In fact Poots has more credibility. He has stood and been endorsed by the people in an election. What is Goretti's record on being a successful election candidate. I think it is fair to say Poots has demonstrably proven that he has more public support than Horgan.

As any nationalist will tell you. The poll that counts is the ballot box.
 

Mickeymac

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Is this Gorretti Horgan, wife/live with Eamon McCann, of Alliance for Choice, a pro abortion group, of the Socialist Workers Party? It looks as if she is completely out of touch with the people and so, on the same token, resign from her post in the university? In fact Poots has more credibility. He has stood and been endorsed by the people in an election. What is Goretti's record on being a successful election candidate. I think it is fair to say Poots has demonstrably proven that he has more public support than Horgan.

As any nationalist will tell you. The poll that counts is the ballot box.

Well worded statement because the Hun believe that polls are fact, their posts over the course of this week confirms that.........btw, less said about the crazies like poots...........the better.
 

ArtyisBack

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Well worded statement because the Hun believe that polls are fact, their posts over the course of this week confirms that.........btw, less said about the crazies like poots...........the better.
He was right about the blood and gays things though
 
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