Portland bakery refuses to serve African American woman, who'd have thunk that pastries would be the front line....

edg

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I was shocked yesterday to read in the ST about a 17 year old black American thrown in jail for 33 months without going to court. He didn't have the money to post bail and couldn't afford a lawyer. He went on to become a lawyer and now helps people in similar circumstances as he found himself in.

I love the show Judge Judy but it is amazing to me how many American's have actually spent time in jail. Often for a day or so. Is it really that common or am I imagining it.
Their prisons are private organisations who make more profits if there is a higher incarceration rate. Their system is rotten.

Check this out - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
 


Emily Davison

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It might surprise you but some elderly people like to work.
I've no problem with that. Why however did you not answer what I asked you. You're in America.
 

Emily Davison

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Their prisons are private organisations who make more profits if there is a higher incarceration rate. Their system is rotten.

Check this out - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
I agree with you on that. It seems a system designed to incarcerate for profit. Incentivising incarceration. Trump pardoned a woman who was jailed for 2 decades on an offence you'd likely not even do jail time in Ireland on.
 

edg

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I agree with you on that. It seems a system designed to incarcerate for profit. Incentivising incarceration. Trump pardoned a woman who was jailed for 2 decades on an offence you'd likely not even do jail time in Ireland on.
She already served 21 years!!! For a crime with no violence. Kim Kardashian helped get her released strangely enough. That same crime in Ireland would get around 3 years (given her good behavior). The prison must have made a lot of money from her misery.
Love to go to the US on holiday sometime, but I would never, ever live there.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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She already served 21 years!!! For a crime with no violence. Kim Kardashian helped get her released strangely enough. That same crime in Ireland would get around 3 years (given her good behavior). The prison must have made a lot of money from her misery.
Love to go to the US on holiday sometime, but I would never, ever live there.
I agree that the US puts way too much emphasis on incarceration in lieu of other alternatives in many situations involving minor offenders. Even for major offences, sometimes they go overboard. I also believe that marijuana/cannabis should be legal because it's not a narcotic and doesn't trigger the same hazards of narcotics with usage.

I also agree with the commutation here given she's done 21 years (even though I believe Trump doing the right thing for the wrong reasons because he has bad reasons up his sleeve regarding pardons) when I look at the totality of circumstances regarding how her co-defendants were treated and sentenced, how she's behaved as a prisoner, etc.

That said, IMO, I don't feel bad that she served the time she did, even if she arguably deserved less than the 21 she served. To claim she's convicted of 'non-violent' offences is technical rather than substantive. That she was a 'first time offender' means nothing without context. Lots of 'first time offenders' have committed extremely serious crimes, even over time periods without having been caught and convicted. She may appear today be a pleasant granny, but that's as far as that goes.

She was a key player in a big time multi-million dollar Memphis-based cocaine trafficking operation. That's very serious sh!t. It involves street violence from her outfit and also the cartel activities they were involved with. Cocaine is a narcotic, and given all the people that narcotics harms--most especially third party innocents--it's not something to be taken lightly.

That scumbags choose to be narcotics dealers to make loads of 'tax free easy cash' whilst people work hard legitimately for less is further insult to injury. That she claims she was doing it because of 'life problems' is no excuse. Much of that was self-inflicted, and it's no excuse to make your burdens other's people's misery by choosing to sell narcotics.

Lastly, Ireland has the opposite problem from the US....it doesn't take serious crime seriously. I'm embarrassed and infuriated constantly at how very serious offenders from serial drug dealers, violent felons, sex offenders, etc, with the worst aggravating factors do so little time for it. You can kill a person for the worst reasons and in the worst manners, and the 'mandatory life sentence' means 8-12 years. That's an injustice too.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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I agree with you on that. It seems a system designed to incarcerate for profit. Incentivising incarceration. Trump pardoned a woman who was jailed for 2 decades on an offence you'd likely not even do jail time in Ireland on.
Agreed, I likewise oppose the private prison industry for precisely those reasons, and this is all too often what results from it, e.g., as the poster 'edg' linked:
Kids for cash scandal

That said, Ireland does wrong in turn that an offender like her wouldn't do time at all. She earned plenty years behind bars for what she did. How much is arguable, but she earned plenty by what she did IMO.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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and most people do enjoy their golden years in peace
Regarding those in their end life years, working should be a choice, not an obligation. IMO, the US has to do a much better job with creating reasonable safety nets for the elderly and/or infirm rather than allowing its Robber Baron Social Darwinist 'right wing' elements to constantly deny and undermine them.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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I was shocked yesterday to read in the ST about a 17 year old black American thrown in jail for 33 months without going to court. He didn't have the money to post bail and couldn't afford a lawyer. He went on to become a lawyer and now helps people in similar circumstances as he found himself in.

I love the show Judge Judy but it is amazing to me how many American's have actually spent time in jail. Often for a day or so. Is it really that common or am I imagining it.
I'd need to know more facts about that case of the 17 year old. That's highly atypical and certainly triggers constitutional concerns. He was absolutely entitled to an attorney if he could not afford one because he clearly faced the reasonable chance of being incarcerated (he was being held in prison for failing to post bail), so something was almost certainly amiss there on its face without knowing more.

17 y/os are deemed juvenile, not adult, and go ordinarily to juvenile court that is rehabilitative in nature and where where incarceration is not the norm. Very serious offenders can be moved to adult court by court permission if it's very serious and the juvenile is deemed old enough to be competent to fully appreciate what they did like an adult. They cannot, however, received the death penalty or life without parole.

The US and state constitutions provide guarantees regarding 'speedy trial' and 'excessive bail', with laws and/or court rules and decisions mandating a release on terms for anyone incarcerated pending trial for failing to post bail if the case isn't brought to trial within a certain time period (6 months is common).

Murder charges are the one exception where it's the common practice to hold the accused without bail until trial, but even then, the 'speedy trial' guarantee still exists. What's deemed reasonable for speedy trial purposes is fact-specific whether or not that guarantee is violated or not.

Judge Judy makes for entertaining viewing, but it has nothing to do with reality. In fact, she'd be removed for the bench for intemperance and misconduct regarding how she behaves in front of the cameras, but that's why it's made for the telly and not the courthourse.

Yes, many Americans have spent time in prison, but it also gets a bad rap. Breaks are commonplace in court for the minor offender, the clown and local eejits, etc. First time offender programmes are commonplace too for avoiding prison and/or convictions. To go to prison even for a day, you generally earned it. If you get a stiff sentence, you likely earned that too.

People who aren't serious offenders usually don't languish in prison awaiting trial or due to a sentence because the court and the lawyers get those handled quickly. If you're behind bars for any notable period of time, you've usually dug yourself a hole by the seriousness and/or recidivist natures of what you've done. In a nation as big and as populated as the US is, though, it's easy to sift through the gazillion cases and find anomalies.
 
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