"Positive" discrimination in favour of women to be used for top jobs in Irish civil service

afns1

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Betson

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Something I'm very sceptical about. I think over time the percentages would have gradually changed anyway.
Not sure of the figures but I see in the comments it is claimed that there are a couple of departments that already have management where females heavily outnumber male in management roles but there are no plans for gender balance measures in these departments.

Also when will we see schools been told to employ male teachers if it comes down to a male and female applying for the same job.

I see also from the same website that the Film board is also working towards implementing its funding for projects to be gender balanced , in that at least 50% of the funding granted will be given to projects where there is a female promoter or writer , director.

Seeing at female promoter make up about 20% of applications for funding it means that any female led project is almost guaranteed to get funding regardless of the quality of the project.

We certainly moving into an era where merit means nothing.
 

Mercurial

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I suppose it's a good thing, but securing equal representation for those with "top jobs" should probably be fairly low on the list of priorities when it comes to gender issues.
 

Betson

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I suppose it's a good thing, but securing equal representation for those with "top jobs" should probably be fairly low on the list of priorities when it comes to gender issues.
Do you think that any department that might have female over representation in their management ranks should also have similar rules applied in that their promotion process should favour males?

On 2nd thoughts no need to answer , you are very predictable on these matters.
 

stopdoingstuff

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Yet another reason to minimise my taxes, move all assets somewhere else where possible, and be as uncooperative with the State as possible. Feminism in discriminatory and any body that promotes female privilege is not legitimate. I may not be able to stop it but I can certainly minimise the extent to which I fund it. The next step will be the kids- sooner or later there will be anti-male classes in school.
 

SideysGhost

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Cue 134 pages of outraged aggrieved wailing about social justice warrior snowflake lesbian feminazi probort libtards from our resident manly secure-in-themselves confident uber-competent Trumpets :lol:
 

Mercurial

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Do you think that any department that might have female over representation in their management ranks should also have similar rules applied in that their promotion process should favour males?

On 2nd thoughts no need to answer , you are very predictable on these matters.
Is there any indication that this wouldn't be the case? Usually when these kinds of recommendations are made, they are written in gender-neutral language (such as the gender quotas for political parties, for example)
 

JCR

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What a stupid idea. Mind you, its not as if the best quality candidates secure these jobs on merit as it is.

A business that implemented such rules would be placing itself at a handicap. Why should the running of a nation state for the benefit of all citizens place itself under a handicap?

There is enough nepotism and who you know already.
 

afns1

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Yet another reason to minimise my taxes, move all assets somewhere else where possible, and be as uncooperative with the State as possible. Feminism in discriminatory and any body that promotes female privilege is not legitimate. I may not be able to stop it but I can certainly minimise the extent to which I fund it. The next step will be the kids- sooner or later there will be anti-male classes in school.
Something along those lines is about to start in Australia:
Lessons on ‘male privilege’ in $21.8m Victorian schools program
Nocookies | The Australian
 

SideysGhost

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Feminism is discriminatory and any body that promotes female privilege is not legitimate.
Yet if I said

Patriarchy is discriminatory and any body that promotes male privilege is not legitimate.
Your response would be aggrieved outrage, yes?

The blunt historical fact is that, overall, women have spent centuries being discriminated against and kept down by systems of control designed by and for the advantage of men. You can whine and gurn all you like but that is the reality. In recent decades we've started as societies to try and overturn the legacy of that and encourage women to rise up through the ranks to leadership positions.

There are indeed areas where men are now dangerously under-represented - I hear teaching is rapidly becoming virtually a female-only profession these days - and any gender-equality measures should take that into account, but overall the blunt fact is that especially in positions of power and influence this is still an extremely male-dominated patriarchal society.

I know all right-wingers fear and distrust women and think they need to be kept under control barefoot, pregnant and chained to the kitchen sink, but well yer just going to have to get over it. There is no going back to whatever 1950s fantasy version of society you might be hankering after. You'll just have to accept women are not just full actual humans in their own right, but are also intrinsically entitled to full legal, social and economic equality with you.

I know it's hard to come to terms with. I'm sure you'll get over it.
 

GDPR

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Yet if I said



Your response would be aggrieved outrage, yes?

The blunt historical fact is that, overall, women have spent centuries being discriminated against and kept down by systems of control designed by and for the advantage of men. You can whine and gurn all you like but that is the reality. In recent decades we've started as societies to try and overturn the legacy of that and encourage women to rise up through the ranks to leadership positions.

There are indeed areas where men are now dangerously under-represented - I hear teaching is rapidly becoming virtually a female-only profession these days - and any gender-equality measures should take that into account, but overall the blunt fact is that especially in positions of power and influence this is still an extremely male-dominated patriarchal society.

I know all right-wingers fear and distrust women and think they need to be kept under control barefoot, pregnant and chained to the kitchen sink, but well yer just going to have to get over it. There is no going back to whatever 1950s fantasy version of society you might be hankering after. You'll just have to accept women are not just full actual humans in their own right, but are also intrinsically entitled to full legal, social and economic equality with you.

I know it's hard to come to terms with. I'm sure you'll get over it.

The blunt contemporary fact is that Paddy couldnt survive without two incomes, but he still wants his to be the largest.
 

afns1

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The blunt contemporary fact is that Paddy couldnt survive without two incomes, but he still wants his to be the largest.
My impression is that quite a lot of women would not be that happy being with a man who earns less than them and who they may see as living off her. Or put another way, a lot of women like the men they are with to earn at least as much if not more than them.
 

stopdoingstuff

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Yet if I said



Your response would be aggrieved outrage, yes?

The blunt historical fact is that, overall, women have spent centuries being discriminated against and kept down by systems of control designed by and for the advantage of men. You can whine and gurn all you like but that is the reality. In recent decades we've started as societies to try and overturn the legacy of that and encourage women to rise up through the ranks to leadership positions.

There are indeed areas where men are now dangerously under-represented - I hear teaching is rapidly becoming virtually a female-only profession these days - and any gender-equality measures should take that into account, but overall the blunt fact is that especially in positions of power and influence this is still an extremely male-dominated patriarchal society.

I know all right-wingers fear and distrust women and think they need to be kept under control barefoot, pregnant and chained to the kitchen sink, but well yer just going to have to get over it. There is no going back to whatever 1950s fantasy version of society you might be hankering after
. You'll just have to accept women are not just full actual humans in their own right, but are also intrinsically entitled to full legal, social and economic equality with you.

I know it's hard to come to terms with. I'm sure you'll get over it.
I have highlighted some of your assumptions, simply to show that they are assumptions and that what tyou really are doing is having a conversation with yourself about how you view the world.. Argument by insinuation is not an argument, but rather the sign of someone who is so used to being agreed with that that the need to offer any actual argument is seen as a cheeky imposition.

I want one rule for all people regardless of background- promotion based on ability. Anything else is discriminatory and there is no middle ground. If you are against gender based discrimination in public hiring, then you simply cannot logically hold that jobs should be awarded based on gender.

Historical discrimination against women is meaningless in this context as it is in the past. If you are basing your view on something that happened in the past, then you have more of an attachment to it than I allegedly have. Using past grievances to argue for freebies and privileges is simply a political tactic to circumvent reason and appeal to emotion. It is essentially a way to play the victim in the hope of guilt tripping people in giving you a hand out i.e. it is a confidence scam.

Anyone who is looking for free stuff based in gender is sexist. There is no nuance here. If you hire based on promoting any group over an other, you do not support equality- you simply want inequality in another form.
 

toughbutfair

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I support creating an environment that allows women to compete on an equal footing e.g. It is hard for women to raise children and chase career progression so more flexible hours should be allowed.

I think "the Rooney rule" could be applied , that would mean that you must at least interview a woman. Sounds like a waste of time, I know, but it has been proven to work in American football with black people who want to be coaches
 

toughbutfair

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I know no politician can say it, but while women are "on average " as smart as men, they are far less likely to be exceptionally smart. Look at the founders of the various I.T companies. I'd like the heads of departments to be exceptionally smart. Women could still make good middle managers though and that should be encouraged.
 

bormotello

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"there is nothing new under the sun"(C)
[video=youtube;OhZRDoGZg00]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhZRDoGZg00[/video]
 

wexfordman

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Not sure of the figures but I see in the comments it is claimed that there are a couple of departments that already have management where females heavily outnumber male in management roles but there are no plans for gender balance measures in these departments.

Also when will we see schools been told to employ male teachers if it comes down to a male and female applying for the same job.

I see also from the same website that the Film board is also working towards implementing its funding for projects to be gender balanced , in that at least 50% of the funding granted will be given to projects where there is a female promoter or writer , director.

Seeing at female promoter make up about 20% of applications for funding it means that any female led project is almost guaranteed to get funding regardless of the quality of the project.

We certainly moving into an era where merit means nothing.
I don't agree with positive discrimination anyway, but if they are to go down this route, there should be absolute equality in employment terms and conditions for men and women. There is no excuse not to do so.
 

Notachipanoaktree

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Not sure of the figures but I see in the comments it is claimed that there are a couple of departments that already have management where females heavily outnumber male in management roles but there are no plans for gender balance measures in these departments.

Also when will we see schools been told to employ male teachers if it comes down to a male and female applying for the same job.

I see also from the same website that the Film board is also working towards implementing its funding for projects to be gender balanced , in that at least 50% of the funding granted will be given to projects where there is a female promoter or writer , director.

Seeing at female promoter make up about 20% of applications for funding it means that any female led project is almost guaranteed to get funding regardless of the quality of the project.

We certainly moving into an era where merit means nothing.
We've been there for a long time now. You just haven't noticed 'cos it didn't affect you.

Go look at the dole queues. Male, almost exclusively. The experts are being decimated by very aggressive friends and relations (Females). First target Male experts.


Can you not feel the tension rising.
 

borntorum

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Feminism, in Ireland anyway, is largely about well educated middle class women seeking to advance their careers at the expense of their male colleagues.
 


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