Post 8th Discussion

MsDaisyC

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To suggest that the individual is entirely independent of society is palpably wrong. Far more female fetuses are aborted in china and india than male fetuses. This is because she felt she needed it?
Where in Ireland can you find out the sex before 12 weeks?
 


Buchaill Dana

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To suggest that the individual is entirely independent of society is palpably wrong. Far more female fetuses are aborted in china and india than male fetuses. This is because she felt she needed it?
Can you do a sex test before 12 weeks?
 

petaljam

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To suggest that the individual is entirely independent of society is palpably wrong. Far more female fetuses are aborted in china and india than male fetuses. This is because she felt she needed it?
After trying to run the debate in Ireland along American parameters, now it seems anti choicers are trying to extrapolate from Chinese society? :rolleyes:
 

Mitsui2

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After trying to run the debate in Ireland along American parameters, now it seems anti choicers are trying to extrapolate from Chinese society? :rolleyes:
Possibly envious of how efficiently Chinese authorities can lock down specific groups of people. If only our own dear Legion of Mary had had such powers back in the day!
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
At one point they pretty much did.
 

RossN

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Sniff sniff.

Whats the weather like in the states?
Being from Dublin I wouldn't know.

(Though nice to see the usual xenophobia and racism of Irish 'progressives' rear it's head again. :rolleyes:)

Completely irrelevant to Ireland then, where apart from Leo Varadkar apparently once getting things mixed up with David Steele's description of UK law back in the 60s, there was no attempt to put any restrictions on women's rights to terminate early pregnancies at all.

The U.K. required two doctors to authorise a woman to terminate at any stage, for that reason. Ireland (and most other European countries) took a different approach - no restrictions on first trimester terminations. So, no promises to make it rare at all.

But there's nothing stopping you from trying to ensure that women don't need to have abortions for economic reasons - better child care etc. Doesn't that interest you at all? Or does that sound too much like hard work to you?
Leo's speech on the subject.

Now as it happens I agree with you that there was indeed no attempt to put restrictions on early abortions, Coveney's ridiculous 'three day wait' aside. However that doesn't change the fact that the 'Yes' campaign deliberately put the message out there in a dishonest (if unfortunately successful) attempt to woo fence sitters. As the reluctant 'Yes' voters on this thread have noted the rhetoric during the campaign was pretty different from the reality come the day.

And yet again I'm mystified as to why hardline Pro-Choicers seem to think Pro-Life people should just abandon their views like that. Your side didn't.

I don't like abortion the same way as I don't like chemotherapy. I'd rather not have to have it, but I will if I need it.
Do you acknowledge the existence of people who don't like abortion for moral/ethical reasons but still support its legality? You seemed pretty sure every single woman who gets an abortion gives it the exact same amount of weighty consideration and philosophical debate.
 

RossN

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After trying to run the debate in Ireland along American parameters, now it seems anti choicers are trying to extrapolate from Chinese society? :rolleyes:
Can we please drop the 'anti-choicer' tag? :rolleyes:

We don't have to agree (we don't!), we don't have to like each other but if we can't even debate this without throwing out slurs over the opposition then this is all pointless.
 

MsDaisyC

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Can we please drop the 'anti-choicer' tag? :rolleyes:

We don't have to agree (we don't!), we don't have to like each other but if we can't even debate this without throwing out slurs over the opposition then this is all pointless.
What are you if not "anti choice"? Calling yourself pro life is a misnomer because you don't care about women and girls, nor do you seem to care about children once they're born. Any campaigns for comprehensive sex ed in schools? Free contraception? Universal access to childcare? All which would improve the lives of children and families. No? Didn't think so!

After using children with special needs in the No campaign for photo ops, what have so called "pro life" groups done to improve their rights and access to education & timely healthcare? Were they only there to be exploited for posters and front pages?
 

petaljam

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Can we please drop the 'anti-choicer' tag? :rolleyes:

We don't have to agree (we don't!), we don't have to like each other but if we can't even debate this without throwing out slurs over the opposition then this is all pointless.
The debate's over. Been well thrashed out and thoroughly rejected by two thirds of the population.

Your only chance now is to find some new arguments, not the same old tired ones which are so see-through they could be made of glass (eg how can abortion be like slavery when you say someone can be against it but support it being legal?)

Hence, of course, your attempt to find a new slant - the claim that prochoice promised that abortion would be rare. They didn't. Varadkar's not a prochoicer, merely an astute politician who saw the writing was on the wall and adjusted his strategy accordingly.

But it's fine. Your campaign was so dishonest that it will be a generation or more before anyone believes a word your side says without independent corroboration.
 

Buchaill Dana

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Being from Dublin I wouldn't know.

(Though nice to see the usual xenophobia and racism of Irish 'progressives' rear it's head again. :rolleyes:)
Dublin Ohio maybe.

Top tip, no Irish person has ever used the word 'progrssive'.

Its not xenophobic to point out you aren't Irish, or at least licked your patter off some alt right sewer
 

Buchaill Dana

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What are you if not "anti choice"? Calling yourself pro life is a misnomer because you don't care about women and girls, nor do you seem to care about children once they're born. Any campaigns for comprehensive sex ed in schools? Free contraception? Universal access to childcare? All which would improve the lives of children and families. No? Didn't think so!

After using children with special needs in the No campaign for photo ops, what have so called "pro life" groups done to improve their rights and access to education & timely healthcare? Were they only there to be exploited for posters and front pages?
He has no idea about the campaign.

Team Nurse Noel talking about integrity...
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Wonder where the Nurse formerly known as Noel is plying his trade these days. Probably be looking at a pipeline protest by native americans near the Canadian border and there'll be a suspiciously familiar looking fellow with a feather in his hair explaining to some journalists how he was on the Trail of Tears...
 


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