Practical advice for a non-recovery scenario

feargach

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Right, most of the talk centres around some recovery or other that'll play the 7th cavalry for us.

Let's look at the alternative scenario: the one where no recovery whatsoever manifests itself.

Please, no babble about mass suicide. Let's also leave the emigration blah for other threads.

Let's have practical, non-satirical advice for surviving in an extended recoveryless environment.

Two notes: this is a PLAN 'B' thread. I am not saying that there will be no recovery. I am saying we need to have a contingency strategy for such an outcome. The incompetence of the EU's current leadership shows us we must take nothing for granted.

I am looking for public policy ideas, things to be done at the level of the state or of mass cooperation, not household strategies.
 
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wombat

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Let's have practical, non-satirical advice for surviving in an extended recoveryless environment.
People are already taking actions such as paying down bills, cutting out optional spending, doing everything that the talking heads say we shouldn't do.
 

TODevastated

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saving money in the fear so as to avoid the tap on the shoulder which says that it is your turn to go
 

Marcos the black

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I've got a few issues with this "death and destruction and valley of tears" situation. I think that while we as a country are screwed, we as a people are well educated, hard working, imaginative and smart. The big difference between this recession/depression and others is that through technology, from your living room, you can consult to a company in the US/UK/China/Germany, where ever. You can jump on to linked in and network, in the 80's yeah right.... goodnight.
I'm not saying all is rosey, but what I am saying is that I live in Thurles. During all other recessions I had to try to find a job locally, or else head for London/New York/Sydney.. Not now, now you can work globally, in spite of local conditions... Make the most of it...
 

feargach

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People are already taking actions such as paying down bills, cutting out optional spending, doing everything that the talking heads say we shouldn't do.
That's OK advice at the family level.

And for people who've paid down their bills and whose total income is eaten up with simply staying alive? No booze no fags.

I'm looking for public policy ideas.

Things for the nation as a whole to do. A plan for the nation as a whole to follow if there is no recovery to make our problems magic themselves away?

What are your policy suggestions, as distinct from things households should do?

What changes need to be made in Health, Education and Transport, in the scenario where recovery simply does not happen?
 

Tea Party Patriot

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Right, most of the talk centres around some recovery or other that'll play the 7th cavalry for us.

Let's look at the alternative scenario: the one where no recovery whatsoever manifests itself.

Please, no babble about mass suicide. Let's also leave the emigration blah for other threads.

Let's have practical, non-satirical advice for surviving in an extended recoveryless environment.
Dump your signature and buy gold before the Germans turn on the printing presses!
 

NewRepublic

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Get financial advise from the elderly. People who have lived through the 40s and 50s.

Be tight, question all income and expenditure. Avoid debt.
 

Buddies

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Legalise weed.

Regulate the sale and supply.

Boom in market and boom in tourism.
 

NewRepublic

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Policy Positions

Cut expenditure across the board. If there is no recovery we will all be much poorer.

The knowledge economy idea should be scrapped. Cut funding to 3rd level and divert it into 1st and 2nd level.
 

feargach

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Get financial advise from the elderly. People who have lived through the 40s and 50s.

Be tight, question all income and expenditure. Avoid debt.
I'm a minister for Transport, how do I put that into practice? I'm failing to see how that has any connection to any public policy enterprise. We're already cutting heavily, and we will continue to do so indefinitely. At the current rate, I can see total state expenditure settling at €5bn in 2020. And the private sector should be worth €2bn that year.
 

feargach

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Policy Positions

Cut expenditure across the board. If there is no recovery we will all be much poorer.
We're cutting like crazy as it is. What changes do you want to make.

Essentially your advice amounts to "steady as she goes". You're saying "maintain course, new cuts every year".

How does that become sustainable if there isn't a miraculous recovery?

Hint: if you keep cutting, eventually you hit zero. Everybody will be dead long before we hit zero.

At some stage, the cutting has to stop.

We need practical advice on when that is.
 

Doodah

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You might get more answers if you clarify what you mean by "survive".
Do you imply an inability bring about change?
Do you imply an inability to problem-solve?
Do you imply an inability to live without hope?
Do you imply the mass adoption of a sense of resignation?
Do you imply the mass adoption of a mendicant mentality?

In the absense of clarification, may I suggest that anyone with an interest in survival,
should work. Work hard and be as generous as you can to people around you rather than retreat into mindsets as described above.
 

TradCat

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Let private operators run bus routes. They will bring down costs for users and create jobs.

If there is to be a property tax let people pay ten years in advance if they can afford it. It will bring money in now.

Allow anyone with a suitable premises and a clean record open a pub.

Legalise marijuana and tax it.

Remove the EU flag from public display and repeal the law that makes us have it on our reg plates. They have proved we are no union so let's drop the pretence.

Political reform, obviously.

Replace the lotto with this idea from China

First Prize in Beijing's Receipt Lottery Cashed
 

feargach

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You might get more answers if you clarify what you mean by "survive".
Do you imply an inability bring about change?
Do you imply an inability to problem-solve?
Do you imply an inability to live without hope?
Do you imply the mass adoption of a sense of resignation?
Do you imply the mass adoption of a mendicant mentality?

In the absense of clarification, may I suggest that anyone with an interest in survival,
should work. Work hard and be as generous as you can to people around you rather than retreat into mindsets as described above.
So you don't have any specific advice for public policy, then?

Would I be right in guessing that you have no public policy suggestions that don't start with "cut spending on..."?
 

feargach

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Let private operators run bus routes. They will bring down costs for users and create jobs.

If there is to be a property tax let people pay ten years in advance if they can afford it. It will bring money in now.

Allow anyone with a suitable premises and a clean record open a pub.

Legalise marijuana and tax it.

Remove the EU flag from public display and repeal the law that makes us have it on our reg plates. They have proved we are no union so let's drop the pretence.

Political reform, obviously.

Replace the lotto with this idea from China

First Prize in Beijing's Receipt Lottery Cashed
Standing ovation for public policy suggestions not revolving around permanently cutting spending!
 

Doodah

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So you don't have any specific advice for public policy, then?

Would I be right in guessing that you have no public policy suggestions that don't start with "cut spending on..."?
I posted this an hour ago on another thread-


Design and implement public policy to:

Reduce national oil-dependency with a vengence.
1. Catch up with the Scandanavians in this regard, particularly Denmark.
2. Overtake all and become world leader in oil alternative technologies.
4. Patent designs, employ, manufacture and export.
5. Save billions on oil importation.

Technical skills in engineering and design are available here.
Retraining of unemployed construction and industrial professionals can be initiated, hopefully before they all emigrate. Their existing skills and problem-solving skills can adapt to R&D and innovation. Science, engineering and design graduates can be employed. State and private companies have a wealth of experience which can be drawn upon to organise development teams and minimise duplication of research.
It would require huge organisation on a national level involving state, semi-state, educational, research and private bodies, but necessity is the mother of invention.
 

IfOnly

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My economic recovery/stimulus package:

Cut public sector wages by 30%, cut public sector workforce by 20,000, use savings to create REAL revenue paying jobs in the PRIVATE sector. Growing the private sector at the direct expense of the public sector will bring money INTO the country not recirculate borrowed money paying an excessive public sector. Its the harsh painful truth that will lead to a direct recovery. Ask INTEL/Schering Plough/GSK would they like 2Bn in tax cuts to create more jobs in this country... answer would be YES... give us the money and we'll give you jobs... WAKE the ************************ UP....
Edit/Delete Message
 

IfOnly

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We're cutting like crazy as it is. What changes do you want to make.

Essentially your advice amounts to "steady as she goes". You're saying "maintain course, new cuts every year".

How does that become sustainable if there isn't a miraculous recovery?

Hint: if you keep cutting, eventually you hit zero. Everybody will be dead long before we hit zero.

At some stage, the cutting has to stop.

We need practical advice on when that is.
My economic recovery/stimulus package:

Cut public sector wages by 30%, cut public sector workforce by 20,000, use savings to create REAL revenue paying jobs in the PRIVATE sector. Growing the private sector at the direct expense of the public sector will bring money INTO the country not recirculate borrowed money paying an excessive public sector. Its the harsh painful truth that will lead to a direct recovery. Ask INTEL/Schering Plough/GSK would they like 2Bn in tax cuts to create more jobs in this country... answer would be YES... give us the money and we'll give you jobs... WAKE the ************************ UP....
Edit/Delete Message
 

NewRepublic

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We're cutting like crazy as it is. What changes do you want to make.

Essentially your advice amounts to "steady as she goes". You're saying "maintain course, new cuts every year".

How does that become sustainable if there isn't a miraculous recovery?

Hint: if you keep cutting, eventually you hit zero. Everybody will be dead long before we hit zero.

At some stage, the cutting has to stop.

We need practical advice on when that is.
Well we could always leave the eurozone and print money to ourselves and inflate our way out of this.

Another position.

I would consolidate and nationalise the health system. Also would attempt to consolidate the population into major ubran centres. Create a counter balance to the Dublin region, by encouraging growth in Cork, Galway and Limerick only. To encouage this I would reduce rates etc and create incentives for people and businesses to move there from the rest of the country. All education, health and transport systems would work more effficiently and we would save money over time.

If people still fancy living in the arse end of nowhere, let them but let them not expect the country to provide their services.
 

feargach

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I posted this an hour ago on another thread-


Design and implement public policy to:

Reduce national oil-dependency with a vengence.
1. Catch up with the Scandanavians in this regard, particularly Denmark.
2. Overtake all and become world leader in oil alternative technologies.
4. Patent designs, employ, manufacture and export.
5. Save billions on oil importation.

Technical skills in engineering and design are available here.
Retraining of unemployed construction and industrial professionals can be initiated, hopefully before they all emigrate. Their existing skills and problem-solving skills can adapt to R&D and innovation. Science, engineering and design graduates can be employed. State and private companies have a wealth of experience which can be drawn upon to organise development teams and minimise duplication of research.
It would require huge organisation on a national level involving state, semi-state, educational, research and private bodies, but necessity is the mother of invention.
Very much what I like.

But I have to sound some notes of caution: we have a lot of elderly and unemployed to care for, and very high debts to furnish.

All the things you talk about revolve around having top-drawer scientists and physicists working on solutions. Those guys want to be paid, and we don't have that much money to throw at them in a non-recovery scenario.

There is no guarantee that even if we make scientific breakthroughs, we will be able to bring them to market, or obtain patents on the technologies.
 


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