Practical Suggestions for Growing the Economy

Cassandra Syndrome

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The deeply flawed and broken fundamentals of our economy have to be resolved first as all ideas are merely an exercise in rearranging deckchairs on the titanic.

1. Our currency. It is highly debt laden and our circular flow of income is seriously banjaxed. No matter what we consume, invest or save domestically hemorages out of the economy in the form of debt obligations to foreign creditors. It is like a massive hole in the bucket. No matter how much we pour into the bucket, more water is flowing out.

We need our own debt free currency that can flow around the economy and goods and services can be freely traded on the back of its strength of relative scarcity and universal acceptance.

2. Our banking system. We need a new banking system. A system in which household savings are used for investing in capital projects. Whatever there is in savings goes to investing and thats finite. No more multiple loans or gross disequilibriums. We determine our own rates from the natural discount rate per market forces not from Brussels.

3. Our Behaviour / Social Norms / Commerical Laws: A complete revamp to suit us and some form of acceptance among our people that failure is ok, that dissent should be public and not private, that being successful is something to admire and not begrudge / Smash the feudal system / value creativity and entrepreneurship. Direct democracy is also an imperative.

4. Utilise our resources that are so plentiful for the population our size. We could be like Norway Canada Switzerland or Australia if we want to be.

There are a lot of good ideas on this thread but it is my belief that my points 1 and 2 are critical as anything we do ends up leaking out of the economy.

Our economy needs to grow by 10% next year just to keep pace with the interest alone on our sovereign debt. Thats before private debt that is 500% of GNP.
 


Cael

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Jun 19, 2006
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Theres a lot of understandable anger,and depression on this site at the moment.Therefore I'm looking for genuine practical solutions to grow the economy over the next 4 years. One suggestion I have is a freeze on Employers PRSI for new employees(with obvious safeguards to prevent abuse). This would reduce the costs to employers of employing new people and allow someone currently unemployed to earn a living and pay tax. Seems like a win win to me. There would be a net gain to the exchequer, to the individual and the employer.
Lets not be delusional. Capitialism in Ireland couldnt grow into anything decent during ten years of unprecedented boom. You think it will do better during the next ten years of golbal collapse?

No, the only policy that can get us out of this crisis is to drop all the neo-liberal nonsense, and build up massive state companies like the ESB and Bord Gáis. This can easily be done by burning the bankers, and declaring the state free of debt. A debt free state will easily be able to borrow money and technology all over the world.
 

Jack Maher

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Oct 11, 2010
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162
Two areas which could bring in badly needed foreign revenue are tourism and agriculture and as both industries are labour intensive, there could possibly be lots of employment for Irish workers, provided they were willing to do the hours and the work.

Tourism has always been one of our biggest earners, but sadly we have never really taken it seriously. Whilst Irish hoteliers in general have made great efforts in attracting visitors, I've always felt that government and the Irish people have never truly valued the sector or appreciated how much revenue it could produce, were it properly planned and exploited. This was starkly evidenced by the tax breaks provided in recent years to muck millionaires whose previous experience of hotel accommodation and hospitality was largely confined to nights spent in the company of dubious females.

Just imagine the effect on tourism numbers if the government abolished our crazy airport taxes and instead done a deal with the airlines to subsidise luggage charges for those visitors who wished to buy stuff here and take it home with them.

And another thing; why are there never any pictures of rain and drizzle in our Failte Ireland brochures?
Surely there are several potential markets where we could attract citizens of parched and sun baked countries to enjoy a few "soft" days in our mild climate, away from oppressive heat and constant sun.

What great big plans and strategies do we have in place to attract hill-walkers, wind surfers, choirs, orchestras, gay couples, handicapped groups, equine enthusiasts, artists, fishermen, etc.
How come the coastline is not peppered with sea water spas and seaweed baths?

The possibilities are endless but for them to be properly exploited, it would require proper planning, development, commitment, training and promotion. I know one couple whose guest house is full every weekend with visitors learning how to make poiteen (they claim it's a perfectly legal enterprise, as long as the end product is not sold or consumed in any great quantities). All I know is they are making a good living and bringing plenty of foreign cash into our blighted isle.

I'll leave to others to expand on the agricultural industry where dairy production alone is forecast to double over the next few years and a growing and discerning world population provides a fertile market for quality food products.

IMHO any future success is dependant on creative vision, proper planning, a commitment to the highest possible standards and it is much too important to be left to chance or put into the hands of some unmotivated faceless dipsticks in some government departments, or worse still; allowed to fall prey to the guile and greed of self-serving local politicians.

Jack,
It can great if we are great at it.
 

Squire Allworthy

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May 31, 2007
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1,404
Split Ireland up into autonomous regions and allow them to set many of their own taxes.

Reduce central government to the minimum.

Default and wind up Ireland PLC, open the new regional administrations the day after.

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Free port zones at airports and seaports.

A phased year on year reduction of the Public sector.

Changes in bankruptcy laws to make failure less punitive.

Structures to encourage COOPs and investment in local business start-ups. Change the ethos of unemployment offices to networking bases for business start-ups.

Encourage the expansion of Credit Unions.

Demand high ethical standards in business and public life. Have the most severe penalties and enforce them. This really is important if you want to attract money into the country.

Simplified tax structure. Use one tax rather than duplication. Road tax then tax on petrol crazy. Dump VAT (know that is not possible just expressing a sentiment wastes untold man hours and the money could be collected much more efficiently for everyone).

Simplified legislation, get back to basics.
 

Doodah

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Nov 14, 2010
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Can I suggest that all the mechanical and electrical, industrial, chemical, civil and structural engineers and technicians, architects and designers and related technicians, unemployed as a result of recession and construction industry collapse, be organised under a national plan to pool resources and form teams and be provided with the necessary resources to research, study, design and construct methods, systems and devices to reduce as far as possible, national oil dependency.
The skills and talent are available and many are unwilling or unable to emigrate.
 

asset test

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Oct 3, 2008
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14,595
Seriously p off the EU and reduce Corporation Tax to 5 % for 5 years for newbies, rising to 12.5% incrementally after 10 years. LOL

I like poppyheads post above too. S/he should be a Government advisor. I admire the passion in that post.
 

cocopoppyhead

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Nov 24, 2010
Messages
52
Seriously p off the EU and reduce Corporation Tax to 5 % for 5 years for newbies, rising to 12.5% incrementally after 10 years. LOL

I like poppyheads post above too. S/he should be a Government advisor. I admire the passion in that post.
is a HE, and Ta. :)

oh, and i updated that post since with a graph :D
 
Last edited:

Pabilito

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Feb 24, 2008
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Lets not be delusional. Capitialism in Ireland couldnt grow into anything decent during ten years of unprecedented boom. You think it will do better during the next ten years of golbal collapse?

No, the only policy that can get us out of this crisis is to drop all the neo-liberal nonsense, and build up massive state companies like the ESB and Bord Gáis. This can easily be done by burning the bankers, and declaring the state free of debt. A debt free state will easily be able to borrow money and technology all over the world.
Do you seriously think that building up the ESB where the average waster gets 74K for clocking in is better than encouraging and supporting hard working people to become small business owners and entrepreneurs (capitalists) and build up a network of creative indigenous exporting world class companies?

The country was fuc..ed by FF not by small business..
 

McDave

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Jul 10, 2008
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13,520
Low commercial rents to encourage business start-ups.
Low domestic rents to encourage workers to emigrate here.
Low utility costs.
Competition in the professions.
Investment in a high quality infrastructure (probably a bit late late for that now).
Heavy investment in primary education, followed by secondary education.

Let the people do the rest.
 

SKELLY

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Feb 23, 2009
Messages
3,110
Low corporate tax of 10% to attract computer games development.

Last year, one game, Modern Warfare 2, grossed over 1 billion dollars in 3 months.
 

Pabilito

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Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
5,923
Can I suggest that all the mechanical and electrical, industrial, chemical, civil and structural engineers and technicians, architects and designers and related technicians, unemployed as a result of recession and construction industry collapse, be organised under a national plan to pool resources and form teams and be provided with the necessary resources to research, study, design and construct methods, systems and devices to reduce as far as possible, national oil dependency.
The skills and talent are available and many are unwilling or unable to emigrate.
Excellent idea!.. we have a wealth of technical talent and experience and all we need is a focus and an organiser..
 

Boy M5

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May 20, 2010
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21,420
Micheal o leary MINSTER for tourism
You're kidding me?
Have you ever flown on his airline?

There's a difference between value & cheap (sometimes) & nasty?

He's from a wealthy family, but I'm sure in an obscure townland somewhere in Westmeath there's a distant female relative running a B&B with no hot water & breakfast served between 7.05 & 7.20 & be out of your room before 8 AM.

Actually its just occurred to me she probably employs a Polish girl in a spray-on swimsuit to clean the rooms, & the poor cratur has to buy her own cleaning materials.
 
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cocopoppyhead

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Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
52
You're welcome.

When we don't know the gender of the poster, the S/HE (that is - "she or he"..) well it's a way of including both :D
I know... and i should update my profile :D

btw, i updated that post with a graph to better illustrate what i was trying to say.
 

TODevastated

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Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
1,332
The deeply flawed and broken fundamentals of our economy have to be resolved first as all ideas are merely an exercise in rearranging deckchairs on the titanic.

1. Our currency. It is highly debt laden and our circular flow of income is seriously banjaxed. No matter what we consume, invest or save domestically hemorages out of the economy in the form of debt obligations to foreign creditors. It is like a massive hole in the bucket. No matter how much we pour into the bucket, more water is flowing out.

We need our own debt free currency that can flow around the economy and goods and services can be freely traded on the back of its strength of relative scarcity and universal acceptance.

2. Our banking system. We need a new banking system. A system in which household savings are used for investing in capital projects. Whatever there is in savings goes to investing and thats finite. No more multiple loans or gross disequilibriums. We determine our own rates from the natural discount rate per market forces not from Brussels.

3. Our Behaviour / Social Norms / Commerical Laws: A complete revamp to suit us and some form of acceptance among our people that failure is ok, that dissent should be public and not private, that being successful is something to admire and not begrudge / Smash the feudal system / value creativity and entrepreneurship. Direct democracy is also an imperative.

4. Utilise our resources that are so plentiful for the population our size. We could be like Norway Canada Switzerland or Australia if we want to be.

There are a lot of good ideas on this thread but it is my belief that my points 1 and 2 are critical as anything we do ends up leaking out of the economy.

Our economy needs to grow by 10% next year just to keep pace with the interest alone on our sovereign debt. Thats before private debt that is 500% of GNP.
How could we be like Norway Canada Switzerland or Australia??

We are miles off any of the said countries
 

Boy M5

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Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
21,420
Low corporate tax of 10% to attract computer games development.

Last year, one game, Modern Warfare 2, grossed over 1 billion dollars in 3 months.
How much did Modern Economic Warfare designed by Angie M from Berlin & distributed by IMF & ECB Games cost us?
 

cocopoppyhead

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
52
Low corporate tax of 10% to attract computer games development.

Last year, one game, Modern Warfare 2, grossed over 1 billion dollars in 3 months.
we can also change our gambling laws so we can allow more than Full Tilt Poker and Zynga (to name a few) operate here.. all these top online poker, gambling sites and so forth operate out of small islands such as Guernesy, The Isle of Man, and Malta (which isnt as small an island)... but we can take in more here.. Full Tilt alone employs about 650 people..

I dont think we need to lower our corporate tax any further, as far as i know, we are the lowest in the world.. would only need to change that if challenged by competition..
 

ppthree

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Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
40
a start would be to get the government to trust indigenous companies and get what it needs (products and services) from local companies rather than the usual big guys... its just usual management rubbish of buying from a major international company and paying huge prices for stuff that could be build at home without the name tag or price tag.

Case in point, the government spent millions on a back-office system for the Integrated Ticketing system from IBM which could have been build cheaper at home.

We will find these multinationals relocating when we're "encouraged" to raise our corporate tax rate and now's the time to be encouraging our own companies...


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