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Preferred Consensus Option for Northern Ireland


DavidCaldwell

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Lets imagine that it has been agreed that we will need to find a constitutional arrangement for Northern Ireland that will be acceptable to most people of all sides - i.e some sort of consensus solution.

Which of the following would be preferable to you? (Imagine that they are the only two options available)

A) Joint Sovereignty (NI part of both the Republic and the UK, in the same way that Andorra is part of France and Spain)

B) A sovereign united Ireland that is, in turn, part of a "Confederation of the Isles" (with the nations of the confederation being jointly responsible for external defence and having a joint, elected, ceremonial Head of State)

Having decided on a prefered (or least disliked) option, how happy would you be with it as a final outcome?
 

runwiththewind

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Apr 12, 2012
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12,701
No to both.

A is an option but B is a definite no, no.

C. An independent NI standing on its own two feet without handouts from anyone. The best option of the lot.
 
J

Johnny Boy

I'd settle for joint sovereignty, as a final solution, if it would bring an end to sectarianism and strife, but of course it won't, and I know already that SF supporters won't accept it nor will those of the DUP.
 

physicist

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Mar 29, 2010
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I think I will have to state a vested interest here.

Theoretical physicists and the like want problems not solutions.
 
C

Castle Ray

Are these imaginary options for after a referendum rejecting the UK?
 

DavidCaldwell

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I'd settle for joint sovereignty, as a final solution, if it would bring an end to sectarianism and strife, but of course it won't, and I know already that SF supporters won't accept it nor will those of the DUP.
The idea behind the thread was to investigate whether, when given some degree of choice in the matter, they could live with a consensus solution. (My belief about human nature is that having some degree of choice makes a huge difference - I have seen this in action when a group of people were being assigned expat postings)
 

DavidCaldwell

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Are these imaginary options for after a referendum rejecting the UK?
Imagine that the political parties decided that they would first try to find a consensus solution, rather than a 50% + 1 solution (possibly because of fears about the outcome of a referendum).
 
C

Castle Ray

Imagine that the political parties decided that they would first try to find a consensus solution, rather than a 50% + 1 solution (possibly because of fears about the outcome of a referendum).
A settlement has been made. Your options are only relevant after a failed referendum.
 
J

Johnny Boy

A settlement has been made. Your options are only relevant after a failed referendum.
The problem is that one side want to see it as permanent but the other regard it merely as an interim measure.
In effect that is why we are condemned to instability.
 
C

Castle Ray

The problem is that one side want to see it as permanent but the other regard it merely as an interim measure.
In effect that is why we are condemned to instability.
All positions are interim in a democracy and therefore unstable.
 

physicist

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A settlement has been made. Your options are only relevant after a failed referendum.
From my point of view the constitutional questions are always dynamic, continuous and situational ... they include choices on matters such as power-sharing, opposition, international relations including for example membership of the EU, sovereign debt, control of public spending and most importantly the freedom and emancipation of the people with regards to the latter Northern Ireland cannot agree its own bill of rights and responsibilities yet wishes to have a devolved form of power, rather than a direct rule of power.
 

DavidCaldwell

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A settlement has been made. Your options are only relevant after a failed referendum.
The decision that NI's future should be determined by the democratic wishes of the people of NI was a move away from the use of violence.

Would you agree with the argument that a decision that NI's future should be determined, if possible, by consensus, would be moving still further from the use of violence?
 

eskrimador

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Sep 17, 2009
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Are these imaginary options for after a referendum rejecting the UK?
You are aware that this place will be on its knees come the summer of 2015?

I was just listening to a programme on Radio 4 while walking the dog and even America is whinging about the rebirth of the Irish economy.

As we Fenians say, we only need to win once
 

eskrimador

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Are these imaginary options for after a referendum rejecting the UK?
So, what's with you becoming a bigoted wee tosser.

We're you always o e pretending to be moderate or are you a former moderate with issues with democracy?
 

eskrimador

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physicist

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It must also be realised that the removal of Articles 2 & 3 by the Republic of Ireland, and the removal of all claims to a "selfish, strategic and economic interest" in Northern Ireland on the part of the government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, was to leave the constitutional position firmly in the hands of the inhabitants to find their own path to a settlement for the time and place it is in.

Northern Ireland has mechanisms to determine its relationships within, and without with regards to the Republic of Ireland, Great Britain and our neighbours in the Crown dependencies Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man. Through this Northern Ireland has the ability to adapt that region to suit its people's need accordingly and use these partnerships in turn help our international relationships.
 

Glaucon

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Aug 13, 2012
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B would be a fine option if a guarantee could be provided that Irish people would not be enjoined to die in military adventures that the population of the island does not support; imagine the utter folly of young Irish men and women dying in inane military actions like Iraq and Afghanistan, as would have happened were we still part of the UK.

I'd be more than happy to settle for A, either, as I've argued elsewhere.

A third option, if I might be so bold, would be a united Ireland governed as part of a federal Europe, which is perhaps the most likely of all in theory (but still highly unlikely in reality).
 
C

Castle Ray

From my point of view the constitutional questions are always dynamic, continuous and situational ... they include choices on matters such as power-sharing, opposition, international relations including for example membership of the EU, sovereign debt, control of public spending and most importantly the freedom and emancipation of the people with regards to the latter Northern Ireland cannot agree its own bill of rights and responsibilities yet wishes to have a devolved form of power, rather than a direct rule of power.
NI needing bill of rights is debatable. I don't see what rights need to be addressed that aren't already in place or can be won through ordinary political debate and legislation.
 
C

Castle Ray

You are aware that this place will be on its knees come the summer of 2015?

I was just listening to a programme on Radio 4 while walking the dog and even America is whinging about the rebirth of the Irish economy.

As we Fenians say, we only need to win once
What's happening in 2015?
 
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