Presbyterian Churcn in Ireland gets tough with homosexuals

Oliver Cromwell McIvor

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"Same-sex couples are "not eligible" to be full members of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland or have their children baptised, the church’s General Assembly has concluded.

The new policies were announced yesterday following the presentation of a report by the church's doctrine committee which stated; "in the light of our understanding of scripture and the Church’s understanding of a credible profession of faith it is clear that same sex couples are not eligible for communicant membership nor are they qualified to receive baptism for their children.

"We believe that their outward conduct and lifestyle is at variance with a life of obedience to Christ."

The Church’s position on marriage and human relationships was further outlined in the report which continued; "homosexual activity is not consistent with Christian discipleship since it does not accord with the will of God expressed in his moral law".

Despite the policy, representative of the church Mark Smith has stated that the church is "not denying anyone communion, or attending worship or access to pastoral care, but rather defining what it means to be of a credible profession of faith".


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/church-says-samesex-couples-can-no-longer-be-full-members-nor-baptise-their-children-36992656.html
 


Dame_Enda

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Its an ironic position for a church of the Calvinist tradition to take. Calvinism teaches "justification by faith alone", and "predestination", which means whether you get "salvation" or not is decided before you are born - in which case what you do while on earth wouldnt affect salvation.
 

Oliver Cromwell McIvor

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Are you trying to tell me the Calvinist doctrine of predestination was concocted so batty boys could have their fun here on earth without consequences?
 

Dame_Enda

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Are you trying to tell me the Calvinist doctrine of predestination was concocted so batty boys could have their fun here on earth without consequences?
If there is predestination then that means salvation or not is already decided so no amount of homosexuality will affect whether someone goes to Heaven or not.
 

Oliver Cromwell McIvor

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Would this lead to a preponderance of homosexuals in the Presbyterian Church hence the decision to clamp down on it by the hierarchy?
 

Dame_Enda

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Would this lead to a preponderance of homosexuals in the Presbyterian Church hence the decision to clamp down on it by the hierarchy?
I dont think so (at least in NI where people are very reluctant to convert) because its genetic in my strong opinion as pointed to by twin studies.
 

John Scotus

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I dont think so (at least in NI where people are very reluctant to convert) because its genetic in my strong opinion as pointed to by twin studies.

Twin studies have found that being Presbyterian is genetic?
 

death or glory

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If there is predestination then that means salvation or not is already decided so no amount of homosexuality will affect whether someone goes to Heaven or not.
But Predestination means that God knows what you are going before you are born.
So whether you are going to be gay or not, he knows what you are thinking and importantly what you are going to do in any given situation.

You have free will, but he already knows what decisions you are going to take.
 

GDPR

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Its an ironic position for a church of the Calvinist tradition to take. Calvinism teaches "justification by faith alone", and "predestination", which means whether you get "salvation" or not is decided before you are born - in which case what you do while on earth wouldnt affect salvation.
Calvinism teaches by people are saved through Grace through Faith but for Faith to be genuine it's fruits must show in a person's life. It's understanding of Justification by Faith is actually different from the Lutheran one, and in practice often significantly so.
 

GDPR

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But Predestination means that God knows what you are going before you are born.
So whether you are going to be gay or not, he knows what you are thinking and importantly what you are going to do in any given situation.

You have free will, but he already knows what decisions you are going to take.
Not quite DOG in this context- Read Chapter III of the Westminster Confession;

"V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, has chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory,[9] out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto;[10] and all to the praise of His glorious grace.[11]

VI. As God has appointed the elect unto glory, so has He, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the means thereunto.[12] Wherefore, they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ,[13] are effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified,[14] and kept by His power, through faith, unto salvation.[15] Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.[16]

VII. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extends or withholds mercy, as He pleases, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praised of His glorious justice.[17]"
 

death or glory

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death or glory

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Not quite DOG in this context- Read Chapter III of the Westminster Confession;

"V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, has chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory,[9] out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto;[10] and all to the praise of His glorious grace.[11]

VI. As God has appointed the elect unto glory, so has He, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the means thereunto.[12] Wherefore, they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ,[13] are effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified,[14] and kept by His power, through faith, unto salvation.[15] Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.[16]

VII. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extends or withholds mercy, as He pleases, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praised of His glorious justice.[17]"
Well you have my interpretation of predestination, that's what i believe.
 

Oliver Cromwell McIvor

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But Predestination means that God knows what you are going before you are born.
So whether you are going to be gay or not, he knows what you are thinking and importantly what you are going to do in any given situation.

You have free will, but he already knows what decisions you are going to take.
Like suck ****?
 

Oliver Cromwell McIvor

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I dont think so (at least in NI where people are very reluctant to convert) because its genetic in my strong opinion as pointed to by twin studies.
I don't know if being a Presbyterian is genetic but a lot of the politicians who have been caught engaged in homosexual activity in Ulster have been of that faith.

Perhaps the church attracts gay men as opposed to it turning them gay per se.
 

AhNowStop

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But Predestination means that God knows what you are going before you are born.
So whether you are going to be gay or not, he knows what you are thinking and importantly what you are going to do in any given situation.

You have free will, but he already knows what decisions you are going to take.

possibly the most moronic contradictory & moronic pieces of text I've ever had the misfortune of reading ... fuk but you crackpots are dumb :roll:
 

Glaucon

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But Predestination means that God knows what you are going before you are born.
So whether you are going to be gay or not, he knows what you are thinking and importantly what you are going to do in any given situation.

You have free will, but he already knows what decisions you are going to take.
That is nonsensical DOG. Either you have free will, or you don't. If God already knows the decisions that you are going to make, you, by definition, do not have free will as your actions are already known.

The Calvinist doctrine of predestination is even more stupid than papal infallibility. Better to be like the Anglicans who believe whatever happens to suit at a given time.
 

The Field Marshal

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That is nonsensical DOG. Either you have free will, or you don't. If God already knows the decisions that you are going to make, you, by definition, do not have free will as your actions are already known.
Wrong.
A second or third party knowing in advance that an action or decision by a first party will occur does not make it occur.

The first party,s freedom is in no way impacted by the foreknowledge of the other parties concerning its future free actions.
 

AhNowStop

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Wrong.
A second or third party knowing in advance that an action or decision by a first party will occur does not make it occur.

The first party,s freedom is in no way impacted by the foreknowledge of the other parties concerning its future free actions.
:shock: ffs .. and another "Lennie" :roll:
 


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