Primetime Investigates 08/06/2009

selfemployedmar

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My dad was a victim of SHine's. I think RTE did a fantastic job on the documentary! Why the Gardai are not being quicker with their investiagtion is beyond me. I think they are hoping he will die before anything else can happen, thereby removing the problem. Well done Bernie Sullivan, being a whistleblower is not easy and she has been a tireless advocate for the abuse victims.

Sorry to hear that.

Yes well done to the whistleblower it took tremendous courage.
He did not bully the Editor of the Drogheda Independent and it seems he tried.
People knew about this guy for the last twenty years, I am amazed that it took this long to hit our screens.
But sure thats the corrupt Ireland we live in..:mad:
 


Kev408

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Why is he not in prison? And why are continuing to pay him? I missed the program but I'm reasonably familiar with the case. What is stopping the State from prosecuting him now after the findings of the Medical Council?
We still pay Ray Burke a pension even though he was a convicted criminal. We also make sure the christian brothers are looked after. We have to run through hoops to get a solicitor, doctor, pharmacist, accountant even just chastised. An old friend of mine used to say that any man in Ireland who wears a uniform, a suit and tie, or a frock is above the law.
 

MsAnneThrope

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But are there any criminal proceedings looming do you know? What's the next step with him?
 

Odyessus

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But are there any criminal proceedings looming do you know? What's the next step with him?

I wouldn't think so. He has already been found not guilty of the original allegations against him, so unless there is evidence of further offences I can't see how he can be charged with anything.
 

IvoShandor

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No, I don't want to be fair to O'Hanlon. In these cases,they always said the allegations are nonsense, the kids were never believed, always sent off with a flea in their ear and a smack across the face. They were always lying, fantasizing, making it up, trying to smear the good people, up to no good, the whelps! The high and mighty (the Doctor, the Priest,the Brother,the Nun) are always above reproach. This is the dirty,stinking story of Ireland :mad:
 
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Cato

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To be fair to O'Hanlon, it's possible that he thought the allegation was nonsense.
Mandatory reporting is the answer. No doctor, or indeed any other person should be able to ignore allegations like this ever again, just because they do not want to open up an appalling vista.
 

Odyessus

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No, I don't want to be fair to O'Hanlon. In these cases,they always said the allegations are nonsense, the kids were never believed, always sent off with a flea in their ear and a smack across the face. They were always lying, fantasizing, making it up, trying to smear the good people, up to no good, the whelps!. The high and mighty (the Doctor, the Priest,the Brother, the Nun) are always above reproach. This is the dirty,stinking story of Ireland :mad:

Yes, why be fair and suspend judgment, when you can be hysterical instead? :rolleyes:
 

Dunlin3

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I watched this program and it made me mad. The state, the church and vested interests failed to protect the young and the innocent. Meanwhile Micheal Shine is free to walk the street with a hefty pension in his pocket. This is the same hospital that protected Michael Neary for many years leaving him free to remove the healthy wombs of many women.

The fact that the Guards failed to act is an absolute disgrace. Why is nobody accountable for their inactions?
 

Odyessus

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It's better to report an allegation straight away whether true or otherwise.

Also its' better safe than sorry !!!!

Yes, I agree. My point is that for all we know O'Hanlon is guilty of nothing more than an error of judgment. He may have genuinely believed that the boy's complaint was nonsense and Shine's examination was perfectly normal. I think we need a lot more information before jumping to conclusions.
 

IvoShandor

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Yes, I agree. My point is that for all we know O'Hanlon is guilty of nothing more than an error of judgment. He may have genuinely believed that the boy's complaint was nonsense and Shine's examination was perfectly normal. I think we need a lot more information before jumping to conclusions.
Some error! You come in with a wrist problem and get your genitals fondled and something shoved up your rectum. Sounds perfectly normal to me :rolleyes: But they always told us "Doctor knows best".
 
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doug

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Yes, I agree. My point is that for all we know O'Hanlon is guilty of nothing more than an error of judgment. He may have genuinely believed that the boy's complaint was nonsense and Shine's examination was perfectly normal. I think we need a lot more information before jumping to conclusions.
It is typical of this website that
1. Just because it was on the television or the newspaper it must be true.
2. That people hear one thing and believe they heard something else.

Out of curiousity I listened to the piece again.

If you listen to the programme again the person making the allegation specifcally said "My GP at the time was the practice of Dr. Rory O'Hanlon". He did not say it was Rory O'Hanlon himself.

He claims that as an 11 year old patient he saw his GP on his own. I doubt if any GP would do that. He then says that the GP contacted his father (by telephone) who came to the surgery and discussed this with the GP before clouting the son and bringing him home. I doubt if in 1974 a GP could have lifted the telephone and contacted the father of an 11 year old child not least because there were no mobile phones but most homes did not have telephones at that time in Rural Ireland.

The abuse perpetrated on the victim by Shine is shocking and should rightly be condemned. I just dont think his GP story adds up and is motivated by something else.

Far from being guilty of making a genuine error, He may not ever have met the person in question at all.
 

speechk

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But are there any criminal proceedings looming do you know? What's the next step with him?
There are about 60 civil proceedings pending I think. he has very high powered lawyers. Some of the victims were due to go on LIveline and his lawyers put a stop to it. Siad they would be in contempt of court. He is a horrible man with very very very powerful connections. He has blocked legal porceedings so much.
 

Toland

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doug

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Some error of judgement! A very common one. In fact, an almost universal one. And a very revealing one.

He seems to have had no reason to think the boy was a liar, but assumed he was anyway on the basis of the seriousness and nature of his allegation.

An extraordinary error of judgement, don't you think?

Culpable negligence, anyone?
The kangaroo court is in session again. Why not hang O'Hanlon now? His conviction was swift and without reference to facts. You obviously didn't see the programme and you are using big words like culpable negligence. Do you know the meaning of the word calumny
cal⋅um⋅ny

–noun, plural -nies.
1. a false and malicious statement designed to injure the reputation of someone or something:
2. the act of uttering calumnies; slander; defamation.
 

RyeSixSeven

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Yes, I too think there can be an element of kangaroo court or lynch mob in these cases whether it is against O'Hanlon as in the prev example, or against Shine himself.

There is clearly no doubt that Shine committed crimes, that those crimes were seriously damaging to the victims and that he deserves to be punished.

But there are laws (which seem to have not yet been properly applied in this case) for that punishment process. In lynch-mob mode, the program provided us with information on his pension and his wealth, implying that he wasn't entitled to it.

Confiscation of pension, and penury for Mr Shine, although undoubtedly satisfying to the victims, as far as I know, isn't part of the proscribed punishment. Jailing, fines etc are and that is what desperately needs to be applied in this case.

If the state incurs a large liability as a result of his crimes, then at that point, his state earnings could be offset against the other. In fact, his wealth would mean that there is more to be recovered, so it is a useful thing. But the tone of the program was the opposite.

Im sure not everyone would agree with me, and I don't want to diminish the suffering of the victims, its just that I am in favour of due process rather than lynch-mob solutions.
 

Toland

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Toland

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IvoShandor

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I'm making a judgement. This is not a criminal case. I've seen the programme. I have no idea who this doctor was, whether he was the politician or not, and I don't care.

Someone came to this doctor and reported a sexual assault. Rather than report the case, he assumed the complainant was a liar,

I would suggest this seemed like culpable negligence. Whether or not this negligence was a criminal offence or not, I'm not qualified to know, but such assumptions have been proven again and again to have been very common and very seriously mistaken.
Whether his negligence was an offence or not, the point is that he did what so,so many have done in Ireand before, as the Ryan report illustrates. He assumed that the young, the weak and the helpless were liars and that the powerful, the respectable and the "great and good" were telling the truth. His assumption was a perfect example of this rotten Irish prejudice against those who are "lesser" and fawning on the high and mighty medical (and religious) establishment, just like the Neary case.

"There is clearly no doubt that Shine committed crimes, that those crimes were seriously damaging to the victims and that he deserves to be punished.
But there are laws (which seem to have not yet been properly applied in this case) for that punishment process. In lynch-mob mode, the program provided us with information on his pension and his wealth, implying that he wasn't entitled to it."

He isn't. Since the State has failed to provide justice,is it any wonder that people go into lynch-mob mode? He gets away scott-free, retains his pension and wealth and the victims are left to watch him waltz away, alone with their unassuaged pain. Would you begrudge them their anger, tell them that since the law has spoken and that they have lost,they will just have to lump it?
 
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