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Pringle About To Introduce His Own Criminalise The Sex Purchaser Bill


General Urko

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Oct 24, 2012
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Read it all here -
http://www.thomaspringle.ie/?p=1971
I have had some time for him up to now, he has done some good work and his father was treated despicably by the state (actually being saved from the hangman's noose by Chalie Haughey who at a cabinet meeting told them to commute his death sentence, Haughey for all his faults at least opposed state murder!), however on this issue, he needs to listen to views other than TORL and see sense! The proven fact is that the Swedish model as has been shown on the Prostitution Consultation Commitee on this board is insane and a very serious threat to the lives of very vulnerable women, as well as enabling traffickers and psychotic clients by driving the biz underground!
Of course, Shatter and the lads will introduce their own criminalisation bill shortly and will not allow Pringle's bill to pass first!
It's just band wagon jumping to appeal to what was traditionally the most conservative county in the Republic. this was due to the fact that so many of its young people joined the diaspora even if only down to NUIG and the damn poverty of the place!
 


R

Ramps

Ireland's politicians are almost all collectivists. The instinct of a collectivist, whenever he is confronted by something he doesn't like, is to pass a law! The unintended cosequences are rarely considered. I fear you're fighting a losing battle on this one, General.
 

Nemesiscorporation

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I live in Sweden at present.

The Swedish law forced prostitution underground and turned Sweden into a traffickers paradise.

Every town now has a trafficker or gang run brothel due, to the Swedish law. Just do a google search and you will find them.

A law such as the Swedish law enacted in Ireland will lead to Ireland being flooded with trafficked women, girls and boys, who will be locked in houses to be used by clients. It will also lead to vulnerabe young Irish boys and girls being forced into brothels by gangs.

The PR on this issue from the Swedish government is nothing but lies. In Sweden if they can hide a problem they will refuse to admit it even exists. In Sweden they used the prostitution law to make prostitution invisible. The biker gangs and traffickers then took over prostitution and flooded Sweden with trafficked women, girls and boys.

If anyone has any sense at at, they need to make a stand against this proposal from Pringle.

Prostitution is an issue that needs to be tackled. However hiding the problem does not get rid of it. All this proposal will do is sweep it under the carpet so that it will be out of sight and out of mind.

Also Pringle needs to get one simple fact into his head. There are both male and female prostitutes, not just female.
 

LamportsEdge

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It is like all Irish social legislation- mere pandering to one vested interest group or another and always groping for a unicorn of a vote.

Whenever Irish politicians are faced with a real need for social legislation they run for cover immediately.

And I cannot think of one occasion when they have ever actively investigated the consequences of any social legislation- mostly because that is a problem for another day and another debate.

It is a small island with a small island mentality and that is particularly true of the small island politicians.

There is never any danger of Irish politicians actually doing anything unique- every attempt at shaping law is always copied from somewhere else and never designed around the problem as it appears on the ground in Ireland.

A colonial form of inferiority complex perhaps. If one were to actually endeavour to protect the lives of prostitutes one would not seek to drive their profession deeper into the shadows where existence becomes even more precarious and unseen.

The fact that the Irish Government may seek to criminalise the clients is just another favourite way the Irish Government has as a culture of expressing 'disapproval' rather than actually dealing with an issue.

In this debate the Government has made it as difficult as possible for anyone who actually knows the profession on the ground from actually taking part in the consultation- instead choosing to hear what it already knows it will hear from the likes of Ruhama, yet another fake lobby group dressed up to give the impression it 'represents' prostitutes.

Another failure in a long line of failed attempts at Irish social legislation approaches with all the inevitability of the failures of the past.
 

Dame_Enda

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Sweden is the rape capital of Europe - bar Russia -- thanks to the so-called Swedish model.
BBC said:
The United Nations holds official statistics on the number of convictions for rape per 100,000 people and actually, by that measure, Sweden has the highest number of convictions per capita in Europe, bar Russia. In 2010, 3.7 convictions were achieved per 100,000 population.
Ruhama's trustees are the Sisters of Charity. It is a front for the Religious Right. The Left should resist getting into bed with them just because they sometimes couch their agenda in feminist lingo.
 
Last edited:

LamportsEdge

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Sweden is the rape capital of the world thanks to the so-called Swedish model.Ruhama's trustees are the Sisters of Charity. It is a front for the Religious Right. The Left should resist getting into bed with them just because they sometimes couch their agenda in feminist lingo.
Yes, Ruhama show every sign of being some front for catholic religious thought and are not considered representatives of the views of prostitutes anywhere except at Leinster House. And editorial elements at RTE which is not much different.

They will send representatives I am sure to international conferences on the issue but they are more concerned with the catholic dogmatic view of 'fallen women who need to be helped to see the light' than they are with ensuring the views of prostitutes on their own profession are transmitted to the prostitutes who inhabit the biggest bordello in Ireland- the Oireachtas.

They are also funded by public money- no one can explain why except that it is yet another catholic church front with its blood funnel stuck into the orifice of the state.
 

Dame_Enda

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Private Members Bills never get off the ground anyway. To be fair to the govt they have not rushed into this.

Even when govts agree with an Opposition Bill, they seldom pass it because they don't want the other side getting credit.
 

Analyzer

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I am in favour of the legislation if it includes the bankers, quangocrats, and the so called professionals who are riding the taxpayer, and sending an extortionate bill on for services rendered !!!
 

GJG

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Sweden is the rape capital of Europe - bar Russia -- thanks to the so-called Swedish model.Ruhama's trustees are the Sisters of Charity. It is a front for the Religious Right. The Left should resist getting into bed with them just because they sometimes couch their agenda in feminist lingo.
It is notable that the article you cite utterly refutes the point that you are making.

In Sweden there has been this ambition explicitly to record every case of sexual violence separately, to make it visible in the statistics ... So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record - one victim, one type of crime, one record.
 

Dame_Enda

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I don't think that would account for the huge gap in the incidence of rape though relative to the rest of Europe. Sweden has double or quadruple the per capita incidence of rape of countries like Germany or the UK.

Leaving that aside, morally I don't believe govt has any business interfering in what goes on in adult's bedrooms provided it is consensual. High-class hookers couldn't be called exploited. Part of being an adult is the right to have agency and be considered responsible for your own choices provided you are not insane. The arguments of the prohibitionists insult the intelligence of women by denying they are capable of making such choices.

The Swedish model would also ensnare adult male prostitutes despite the fact that the coercion argument is very hard to convincingly make there given the greater strength of men.

This is about religion if we are honest about it.
 

borntorum

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It is like all Irish social legislation- mere pandering to one vested interest group or another and always groping for a unicorn of a vote.

Whenever Irish politicians are faced with a real need for social legislation they run for cover immediately.
+1. I would be concerned that this Bill or something similar will be passed sooner rather than later. Not because the majority of the Oireachtas positively supports criminalisation, but because they are spineless populists who always want to take the line of least resistance and don't want to confront the unholy alliance of conservative Catholics and repressive feminists who are pushing this move.
 

GJG

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I don't think that would account for the huge gap in the incidence of rape though relative to the rest of Europe. Sweden has double or quadruple the per capita incidence of rape of countries like Germany or the UK.
What huge gap in the incidence of rape? Sources? References? The article you selectively quoted utterly debunked the myth that a higher reporting rate signifies a higher incidence rate.

Leaving that aside, morally I don't believe govt has any business interfering in what goes on in adult's bedrooms provided it is consensual.
I agree. I also agree that government shouldn't interfere in business transactions, but we still require legislation for consumer protection, trades descriptions, unfair contract terms, minimum wages, loan sharks and many more. The general principle (and presumption) of non-interference does not mean ignoring the need to intervene when needed for the common good.

High-class hookers couldn't be called exploited.
Really? I don't think that this image has much connection with reality. The sex is really only the only part of the whole equation that I have no problem with. Prostitutes who operate alone are at a simply phenomenal level of risk of violence and murder. Prostitutes who operate under the 'protection' of pimps are subject to violence and coercion from them.

Another huge problem is that the earning power of a prostitute declines with age, unlike almost any other 'profession'. The youngest, most vulnerable and naive girls are the most in demand from both pimps and clients, so the motivation and rewards for abusing and exploiting them are highest when their ability to resist it is lowest. That can't end well.

Part of being an adult is the right to have agency and be considered responsible for your own choices provided you are not insane. The arguments of the prohibitionists insult the intelligence of women by denying they are capable of making such choices.
I totally agree with the principle, and I would be clear that the only goal of any legislation should be to protect vulnerable people. Public enforcement of private morality is both wrong and damaging. However, the the law frequentlyprotects adults vulnerable to an inequality of power in other areas, so why here?

The Swedish model would also ensnare adult male prostitutes despite the fact that the coercion argument is very hard to convincingly make there given the greater strength of men.
[video=youtube;cjW8PSan3-o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjW8PSan3-o[/video]​
 

Zach Dingle

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In fairness the 'rise' in rape in Sweden is not down to this law, it's down to an absurd expanding of what legally constitutes it e.g. mr. Wiki leaks being 'caught' under it! Though it has been 'forced through' by mad rad fems who were behind the passing of this criminalise the punter law! In Sweden these rad fem ass holes are classic men haters and also detest women, who wish to engage in any heterosexual contact with men on the grounds that they are letting the side down!
The introduction of this proposed new law will not put 1 more woman who does not work in the sex trade at any greater rape threat, it will however put every woman and man who do work in it at vastly greater risk of all sorts of abuse, especially rape!
 

Zach Dingle

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Pringle, Stick To The Crisps, You Big Ejit, Ya!

Apart from being highly misinformed on this topic and obviously band wagon jumping, this so called public representative is in competition with a Donegal Shinner, who has made a right fool of himself on this issue also!
By The Way, the notion of buying a woman is absurd in this context, the transaction is the renting of a sexual service from a person willing to provide it (except in cases of trafficking/enforced people).
 

Colin M

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I think he must be worried of re-election in Donegal, if he's doing this.
 

Zach Dingle

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Yes, Ruhama show every sign of being some front for catholic religious thought and are not considered representatives of the views of prostitutes anywhere except at Leinster House. And editorial elements at RTE which is not much different.

They will send representatives I am sure to international conferences on the issue but they are more concerned with the catholic dogmatic view of 'fallen women who need to be helped to see the light' than they are with ensuring the views of prostitutes on their own profession are transmitted to the prostitutes who inhabit the biggest bordello in Ireland- the Oireachtas.

They are also funded by public money- no one can explain why except that it is yet another catholic church front with its blood funnel stuck into the orifice of the state.
This is also supported by their usual arch enemies the radical feminists!
The enemy of my enemy can be my enemy also!
 

Dr Pat

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Ridiculous proposal which should be turfed out. Legislative and regulate. If people want to buy and sell sexual services they should be allowed to do so but it should be regulated.
 

Zach Dingle

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+1. I would be concerned that this Bill or something similar will be passed sooner rather than later. Not because the majority of the Oireachtas positively supports criminalisation, but because they are spineless populists who always want to take the line of least resistance and don't want to confront the unholy alliance of conservative Catholics and repressive feminists who are pushing this move.
It's as obvious as night following day. We will get a version of this insane law here and soon!
The consultation process has been proven as a charade e.g. not speaking to those working on the ground, who will be drastically hurt by this law, even if it decriminalises them!
It was obvious since the consultation committee was made up of 3 prohibitionist senators (rem what alcohol prohibition did in the states, it caused the institutionalisation of gangsterism forever and it was instigated by religious nutters too)
1 The Batty Chick, who has never been elected by the general public and despite being a mad Hattie Harmon wannabe will have her political career ended when the senate is abolished!
2 The mad Mullah of the senate, a clown who is the greatest add for the abolition of said institution ever and that's really saying something
and
3 Another unelected Senator I'm all for women licking each others pussies,:p but no woman can willing allow a MAN to sexually engage with her for direct payment! Well go figure!
 

Sense 0f Wonder

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That's smart: give the Gardai more to police while simultaneously reducing their resources. Pretty soon it won't matter what laws are in place; the Gardai will be too demoralized and under-resourced to enforce most of them.
 

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