Prisoner of the Pope?

Sheeple_Waker

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Her name means little to most people now but the disappearance of Emmanuela Orlandi in 1983 caused a stir, with allegations that the mafia or elements connected to Mehmet Ali Agca (the would be assassin of JP2) had kidnapped this girl, daughter of a Vatican civil servant, as a means of blackmailing the Holy See. A different story has made its way into the papers this week with the revelation by her brother, Pietro, that he has possession of a secret Vatican document detailing payments made on this matter to a woman's home in London and an obstetrician over a number of years following her disappearance.
Between 1988 and 1993, the document shows fees apparently being paid to St Mary’s Hospital in Paddington and to Lesley Regan, who was appointed senior lecturer in obstetrics and gynaecology there in 1990. Professor Regan did not return calls for comment.
The author of the book this alleged document is published in has a track record of blowing the whistle on clerical abuse, so questions imo should be asked about this particular case.
Nocookies | The Australian
 


Hillmanhunter1

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Her name means little to most people now but the disappearance of Emmanuela Orlandi in 1983 caused a stir, with allegations that the mafia or elements connected to Mehmet Ali Agca (the would be assassin of JP2) had kidnapped this girl, daughter of a Vatican civil servant, as a means of blackmailing the Holy See. A different story has made its way into the papers this week with the revelation by her brother, Pietro, that he has possession of a secret Vatican document detailing payments made on this matter to a woman's home in London and an obstetrician over a number of years following her disappearance.

The author of the book this alleged document is published in has a track record of blowing the whistle on clerical abuse, so questions imo should be asked about this particular case.
Nocookies | The Australian
Vatican response:

"Ahead of an upcoming book launch, two Italian newspapers this morning published a supposed document of the Holy See, which attests to the payment of large sums, by the Vatican, to maintain, outside of Italy, Emanuela Orlandi, who disappeared from Rome on 22 June 1983.

The Secretariat of State firmly denies the authenticity of the document and declares the information contained in it to be completely false and without foundation.

It is especially sad that with these false publications—which, among other things, wound the honour of the Holy See—the immense sorrow of the Orlandi family, with whom the Secretariat of State re-affirms its solidarity, should be exacerbated."

Press Office Statement on the case of Emanuela Orlandi - Vatican Radio
 

Cruimh

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Vatican response:

"Ahead of an upcoming book launch, two Italian newspapers this morning published a supposed document of the Holy See, which attests to the payment of large sums, by the Vatican, to maintain, outside of Italy, Emanuela Orlandi, who disappeared from Rome on 22 June 1983.

The Secretariat of State firmly denies the authenticity of the document and declares the information contained in it to be completely false and without foundation.

It is especially sad that with these false publications—which, among other things, wound the honour of the Holy See—the immense sorrow of the Orlandi family, with whom the Secretariat of State re-affirms its solidarity, should be exacerbated."

Press Office Statement on the case of Emanuela Orlandi - Vatican Radio
What honour would that be?
 

Hillmanhunter1

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MsDaisyC

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What honour would that be?
Going to get a bit Klingon now but: "You have no Honour!!" (kap'laaa implied)

The catholic church is up to its old tricks of bringing disgraced priests to the Vatican to avoid justice. I thought Pope Francis was supposed to be different, but he's doing the same old same old as JPII and Benedict did and putting criminals' protection before victims' welfare and a right to justice.

I can't post links (soon, damn you 50 post limit, soon!!) but google Carlo Alberto Capella for details of yet another sordid attempt to protect a paedophile priest.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Going to get a bit Klingon now but: "You have no Honour!!" (kap'laaa implied)

The catholic church is up to its old tricks of bringing disgraced priests to the Vatican to avoid justice. I thought Pope Francis was supposed to be different, but he's doing the same old same old as JPII and Benedict did and putting criminals' protection before victims' welfare and a right to justice.

I can't post links (soon, damn you 50 post limit, soon!!) but google Carlo Alberto Capella for details of yet another sordid attempt to protect a paedophile priest.
There you go:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/15/world/europe/vatican-pornography-case-diplomat.html
 

Catalpast

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Going to get a bit Klingon now but: "You have no Honour!!" (kap'laaa implied)

The catholic church is up to its old tricks of bringing disgraced priests to the Vatican to avoid justice. I thought Pope Francis was supposed to be different, but he's doing the same old same old as JPII and Benedict did and putting criminals' protection before victims' welfare and a right to justice.

I can't post links (soon, damn you 50 post limit, soon!!) but google Carlo Alberto Capella for details of yet another sordid attempt to protect a paedophile priest.
If you have any evidence about what happened to the poor girl

- then please report it to the Polizia di Stato

- otherwise stop making silly accusations....
 

MsDaisyC

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If you have any evidence about what happened to the poor girl

- then please report it to the Polizia di Stato

- otherwise stop making silly accusations....
Always someone to defend the child rape factory....
 

GDPR

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On the face of it this is more Italian "dietrologia". The country has an infamous tradition of inventing and circulating absurd conspiracy theories, mainly because their justice system is so notoriously erratic, when not compromised by corruption.

Prof Lesley Regan is a very well known medical expert, who has appeared on programmes like BBC's "Horizon" to discuss scientific subjects. I find it highly improbable she was involved in cloak and dagger ops on behalf of the Vatican.
 

Cruimh

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Going to get a bit Klingon now but: "You have no Honour!!" (kap'laaa implied)

The catholic church is up to its old tricks of bringing disgraced priests to the Vatican to avoid justice. I thought Pope Francis was supposed to be different, but he's doing the same old same old as JPII and Benedict did and putting criminals' protection before victims' welfare and a right to justice.

I can't post links (soon, damn you 50 post limit, soon!!) but google Carlo Alberto Capella for details of yet another sordid attempt to protect a paedophile priest.
Those who thought Pell leaving the Vatican was the start of a new era are in for a disappointment

Vatican recalls Washington DC diplomat in child porn investigation

Holy See refuses to waive diplomatic immunity and begin internal investigation despite US State Department’s requests


The Vatican has recalled a diplomat from Washington D.C. who is suspected of violating “laws relating to child pornography images”.


The US State Department notified the Holy See about their investigation on August 21. The priest, a diplomat representing Pope Francis at the Holy See Embassy, in Washington D.C. has not been named. It has been confirmed that the priest now in the Vatican, in Rome.

The United States formally requested that the accused waive diplomatic immunity, in order to open the way for prosecution by US authorities. The Vatican declined this request and have stated that they, as a sovereign state, have opened their own investigation and has begun “international collaboration” in gathering evidence for the case.
 

Toland

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On the face of it this is more Italian "dietrologia". The country has an infamous tradition of inventing and circulating absurd conspiracy theories, mainly because their justice system is so notoriously erratic, when not compromised by corruption.

Prof Lesley Regan is a very well known medical expert, who has appeared on programmes like BBC's "Horizon" to discuss scientific subjects. I find it highly improbable she was involved in cloak and dagger ops on behalf of the Vatican.
Secrecy and ethical turpitude breed silly conspiracy theories, and silly conspiracy theories provide cover for continued ethical turpitude.

This particular one looks extremely unlikely.
 

GDPR

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Secrecy and ethical turpitude breed silly conspiracy theories, and silly conspiracy theories provide cover for continued ethical turpitude.

This particular one looks extremely unlikely.
There is a fascinating book by a US journalist based in Italy for years called "The Monster of Florence" about a famous spate of killings which took place there in the 60s. He has his own pet theory who was responsible, but the real focus of the book is on the utterly wild conspiracy theories which snowballed around the case.

Many of these were pushed by local prosecutors, who you think would know better. But this seems to have been a combination of utter investigative ineptitude, a strange Italian mixture of total cynicism about authority (justifiable enough) and a willingess to believe or at least pretend to believe crazy stuff. The prosecutors themselves were motivated by a desire to win political influence and/or some bee in their own bonnets.
 

artfoley56

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there was always the allegation that this was linked to the banda dalla magliana and in particular to enrico del pedis who was surprisingly buried in a prominent church after he was whacked. he was exhumed after there was an allegation that the girl's body had been placed with his.

As an aside, if you have any interest in the banda, you should check out the tv show Romanza Criminale. it's in Italian but its fantastic TV and the stuff they got inbolved in had to be seen to be believed.
 

GDPR

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there was always the allegation that this was linked to the banda dalla magliana and in particular to enrico del pedis who was surprisingly buried in a prominent church after he was whacked. he was exhumed after there was an allegation that the girl's body had been placed with his.

As an aside, if you have any interest in the banda, you should check out the tv show Romanza Criminale. it's in Italian but its fantastic TV and the stuff they got inbolved in had to be seen to be believed.
Of all the theories I have read the de Pedis link is the most plausible. The gang had both the motive and the means to effect the kidnap. Other groups seem to have piggy-backed on the story, and I believe a good many of the subsequent phone calls etc were malicious hoaxes by individuals with no connection to the case at all.

I ve always thought that if the Band della Magliana were responsible, then the fact that the Pope made a public plea for the girls return actually sealed her death warrant. They would then know it was going to be very difficult to return her, as the abduction had gone international. Kidnappers will not hang on to someone they think everyone is looking for, which is why the police advise a news black-out in such cases.

However, applying Occams razor, it is also entirely possible she was murdered by a random stalker or someone who had groomed her for rape. The rest was a pyramid of piffle erected by various interested groups to capitalise on the public attention to the case.
 

PeaceGoalie

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This is so Protestant Truth Society, c 1882.
 

former wesleyan

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there was always the allegation that this was linked to the banda dalla magliana and in particular to enrico del pedis who was surprisingly buried in a prominent church after he was whacked. he was exhumed after there was an allegation that the girl's body had been placed with his.

As an aside, if you have any interest in the banda, you should check out the tv show Romanza Criminale. it's in Italian but its fantastic TV and the stuff they got inbolved in had to be seen to be believed.
This was broadcast with subtitles a few years ago.
 


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