Private Sector workers

inthemire

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Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
593
Hi,

I know a group of private sector workers who have cost this state anything from 30 billion to 60 or 70 Billion.

When things were good, these private sector workers kept all the money for themselves, bought big cars, big houses, personal share options, private pension schemes, etc, etc, etc

Now when the pyramid schemes they created went belly up because of their greed, they got their friends in the media to point the finger of blame on public and Civil Servants.

Now as a simple person, I still can't figure out how the public and Civil servants can be blamed for Anglo owing over 30 billion, AIB owing possibly 25 billion and BOI possibly owing 20 Billion. But yet every day, we hear it in the media, we read it on this board, that it's those evil Civil and public servants who are to blame!!!

Still i'm sure somebody out there can explain why Civil servants are to blame for the death of this country, caused by private sector workers.

:roll::roll::roll:


PS.. If you missed the sarcasm above, i'd like to point out that for EVERY lazy civil servant, there's a crooked private sector worker. For every public servant who takes a longer tea break, there's a private sector worker who overclaims his mileage allowance.

There are good civil/public servants and there are good private sector workers. We need to work together to get rid of the bad ones.

Blaming each other is what THEY want.
 


ifreannach

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Joined
Apr 6, 2007
Messages
872
collussion, those with will always ensure those without pay to maintain their lifestyles

scum rises to the top whether private or public
 

Luigi Vampa

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Jun 19, 2010
Messages
3,225
Don’t bother, You're wasting your time. Your outnumbered 8 to 1.

Through the Irish media, which they own and control, they've convinced the public our economic mess is nothing to do with the Golden Circle, and that 70 billion for the private sector bailouts, is not important compared to the 15 billion budget, and its all the fault of ordinary public sector workers. The billions of euro spent in the private sector, by a few hundred specially connected individuals, speculating with foreigner’s money, that now has to be paid back by the taxpayer, never happened.

Buy a shotgun, get some steel grills for your window and doors. It's only starting.

If you thought the bank bailout was bad, wait until the mortgage defaults hit home http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1108/1224282865400.html
 
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Tea Party Patriot

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Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
11,468
Hi,

I know a group of private sector workers who have cost this state anything from 30 billion to 60 or 70 Billion.

When things were good, these private sector workers kept all the money for themselves, bought big cars, big houses, personal share options, private pension schemes, etc, etc, etc

Now when the pyramid schemes they created went belly up because of their greed, they got their friends in the media to point the finger of blame on public and Civil Servants.

Now as a simple person, I still can't figure out how the public and Civil servants can be blamed for Anglo owing over 30 billion, AIB owing possibly 25 billion and BOI possibly owing 20 Billion. But yet every day, we hear it in the media, we read it on this board, that it's those evil Civil and public servants who are to blame!!!

Still i'm sure somebody out there can explain why Civil servants are to blame for the death of this country, caused by private sector workers.

:roll::roll::roll:


PS.. If you missed the sarcasm above, i'd like to point out that for EVERY lazy civil servant, there's a crooked private sector worker. For every public servant who takes a longer tea break, there's a private sector worker who overclaims his mileage allowance.

There are good civil/public servants and there are good private sector workers. We need to work together to get rid of the bad ones.

Blaming each other is what THEY want.
The state should not have bailed out the banks they should have been allowed to fail full stop. A free economy should not reward poor judgement of risk with a free bailout.

However this is still not an argument against reforming the civil service.

A lazy civil servant is paid for by the taxpayer. A crooked private sector worker should be prosecuted if he/she is breaking the law, it still doesn't justify the lazy civil servant being unsackable.

If a private sector worker is overclaiming his milage then that is a problem his private sector employer should be looking into, it doesn't cost me money as a taxpayer.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
32,906
If a private sector worker is overclaiming his milage then that is a problem his private sector employer should be looking into, it doesn't cost me money as a taxpayer.
YES IT DOES!! I frequently cite the example here of the couple I know who work for Shell and are home every evening at 4 get invited to allsorts of dinnwers and drinks with taxi home paid for etc. etc. This kind of extravagance goes on the price of fuel and other products and it does cost me money as dioes the extravagance of the so called private sector banks.
 

Gardener

Active member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
120
Hi,

I know a group of private sector workers who have cost this state anything from 30 billion to 60 or 70 Billion.

When things were good, these private sector workers kept all the money for themselves, bought big cars, big houses, personal share options, private pension schemes, etc, etc, etc

Now when the pyramid schemes they created went belly up because of their greed, they got their friends in the media to point the finger of blame on public and Civil Servants.

Now as a simple person, I still can't figure out how the public and Civil servants can be blamed for Anglo owing over 30 billion, AIB owing possibly 25 billion and BOI possibly owing 20 Billion. But yet every day, we hear it in the media, we read it on this board, that it's those evil Civil and public servants who are to blame!!!

Still i'm sure somebody out there can explain why Civil servants are to blame for the death of this country, caused by private sector workers.

:roll::roll::roll:


PS.. If you missed the sarcasm above, i'd like to point out that for EVERY lazy civil servant, there's a crooked private sector worker. For every public servant who takes a longer tea break, there's a private sector worker who overclaims his mileage allowance.

There are good civil/public servants and there are good private sector workers. We need to work together to get rid of the bad ones.

Blaming each other is what THEY want.
I dont think anyone blames the civil servants for the banks. But the fact is now your employer is broke (€20billion in debt in fact) and there needs to be paycuts in the civil service to help close the gap. Of course the lower paid civil servants should be protected but those on the higher salaries should be taking big pay cuts and a salary cap introduced. And the government should impose a wealth tax / increase income tax for those above about €100-120 on the private sector side so the most vulnerable are also protected. Of course ALOT more needs to be done but this could be a start!
 

Luigi Vampa

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Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
3,225
I dont think anyone blames the civil servants for the banks. But the fact is now your employer is broke (€20billion in debt in fact) and there needs to be paycuts in the civil service to help close the gap. Of course the lower paid civil servants should be protected but those on the higher salaries should be taking big pay cuts and a salary cap introduced. And the government should impose a wealth tax / increase income tax for those above about €100-120 on the private sector side so the most vulnerable are also protected. Of course ALOT more needs to be done but this could be a start!
Since when does 70 billion = 15 billion ? You should know by now how Ireland works, the top of the PS will never feel any pain, it will be the lower levels.
 

Fides

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Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
4,425
You need to divide our problems in 2
1. The bank bailout and no the public sector are not to blame for that (apart from a level of culpability in the regulators office)
2. Our budget deficit of €20b. We spend €50b, we earn €30b. Either we increase the €30b to €50b or we reduce the €50b. Now I don't blame PS workers for taking pay rises when they were offered (we all did) or indeed for the increase in numbers. But that is now unsustainable. Hence the need for a reduction in PS costs. The best way to do this is numbers reduction imo.
 

DeputyEdo

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Aug 9, 2010
Messages
3,449
The government want us blaming each other...that way, they won't get the blame
 

cry freedom

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Nov 8, 2009
Messages
2,338
YES IT DOES!! I frequently cite the example here of the couple I know who work for Shell and are home every evening at 4 get invited to allsorts of dinnwers and drinks with taxi home paid for etc. etc. This kind of extravagance goes on the price of fuel and other products and it does cost me money as dioes the extravagance of the so called private sector banks.
Ah yes, but one HUGE difference.
In the morning there are at least half a dozen other suppliers you can move your business to.
No choice with the civil servants!
 

Luigi Vampa

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Jun 19, 2010
Messages
3,225
You need to divide our problems in 2
1. The bank bailout and no the public sector are not to blame for that (apart from a level of culpability in the regulators office)
2. Our budget deficit of €20b. We spend €50b, we earn €30b. Either we increase the €30b to €50b or we reduce the €50b. Now I don't blame PS workers for taking pay rises when they were offered (we all did) or indeed for the increase in numbers. But that is now unsustainable. Hence the need for a reduction in PS costs. The best way to do this is numbers reduction imo.
The average PS worker is on 48k, so the solution is to turn them into 30k dole recipients (rent supplements, medical cards etc.), paying no taxes, and providing absolutely no public services and having no money to spend on the private sector service industries, and ignore the 70 billion being given to the super rich. Cutting ordinary PS wages also has the same effect on the economy, less taxes, less income being spent in the private sector, Doubt your going to save much there, but sure fire away, your actually digging your own grave. Cut the top of the PS for a change.
 
Last edited:

cakeordeath

Active member
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
214
Hi,

I know a group of private sector workers who have cost this state anything from 30 billion to 60 or 70 Billion.

...... a private sector worker who overclaims his mileage allowance.
Oh please, PLEASE please please please name them !!!:eek: You KNOW them?!!!...Really?
...Look :shock:...I'm going to do another eek "EEK... :eek:"

Betcha it's the lads from Dell is it?.. or SR technics? or Waterford crystal? Oi! ...our local hardware store went belly up there over the summer, Was it any of those lads?

As for the private sector worker that overclaims his mileage... Honest to God you couldn't be up to them, could you. Mind you, he/she is probably unemployed by now.....
...you're well on the ball you are. Here's another :eek: for you.
 

Fides

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Apr 6, 2010
Messages
4,425
The average PS worker is on 48k, so the solution is to turn them into 30k dole recipients (rent supplements, medical cards etc.), paying no taxes, and providing absolute no public services and having no money to spend on the private sector service industries, and ignore the 70 billion being given to the super rich. Doubt your going to save much there, but sure fire away, your actually digging your own grave.
And your solution is....
Increase taxes by €20b, that will really stimulate the economy and make Ireland an attractive place to do business.
Or
Do nothing and wait for someone else to make us do it.
 

wexfordman

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Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
7,760
Actually ladies and gents, I must confess! The entire thing is my fault!! I've been working away in Ireland for the last 15 years as a nasty paye worker, availing if every single tax break known to man ! I've even been avoiding tax by throwing wads if excess cash into my dc pension! I then had the cheek to purchase a house at a reasonable price, and was too tight to spend my money on foreign holidays and stuff to keep the economy going! I even drove the same car for 10 years and refused to "donate" my money to cash strapped car dealers etc! ( thankfully gormely fixed this by forcing ke to give it to them via the scrappage scheme)

So, now that you all know who is responsible all our problems are solved, the debt has mysteriously disaprared and we are in for an easy budget!

No need to thank me!
 

Gardener

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Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
120
Since when does 70 billion = 15 billion ? You should know by now how Ireland works, the top of the PS will never feel any pain, it will be the lower levels.
I more or less agree with the above post by the Fides. We could go back and forth for about 10 pages blaming private or public sector. In fact surely this argument should be long over by now. The truth of the matter is that most private and public workers are getting screwed and will be screwed furthermore in December. We need to stop bickering and come up with solutions because the simple fact is that there is a €20 billion deficit that needs to be addressed. Above were just a few examples and by and large I agree with what Sinn Fein proposed in their budget submission (I must admit I havent voted for them before) and see if we can somehow extend the 3% target to 2016. If the plan is credible, secures growth and could prevent a depression surely the bond markets will accept that above the 2014 deadline, which looks more and more likely to end in complete failure for Ireland
 

johndodger

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Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
1,845
Hi,

I know a group of private sector workers who have cost this state anything from 30 billion to 60 or 70 Billion.

When things were good, these private sector workers kept all the money for themselves, bought big cars, big houses, personal share options, private pension schemes, etc, etc, etc

Now when the pyramid schemes they created went belly up because of their greed, they got their friends in the media to point the finger of blame on public and Civil Servants.

Now as a simple person, I still can't figure out how the public and Civil servants can be blamed for Anglo owing over 30 billion, AIB owing possibly 25 billion and BOI possibly owing 20 Billion. But yet every day, we hear it in the media, we read it on this board, that it's those evil Civil and public servants who are to blame!!!

Still i'm sure somebody out there can explain why Civil servants are to blame for the death of this country, caused by private sector workers.

:roll::roll::roll:


PS.. If you missed the sarcasm above, i'd like to point out that for EVERY lazy civil servant, there's a crooked private sector worker. For every public servant who takes a longer tea break, there's a private sector worker who overclaims his mileage allowance.

There are good civil/public servants and there are good private sector workers. We need to work together to get rid of the bad ones.

Blaming each other is what THEY want.
Well said.

I believe that the vicious campaign to vilify public service workers is directly orchestrated by the FF/Media spin machine to divert attention and blame away from the real culprits i.e. the FF/Developer/Banker cadre which must be protected at all costs.

FF may not know anything about running a country, but they do good spin and unfortunately people on this board and elsewhere fall for it hook line and sinker. Its unfortunately also the reason why FF won't be out of power for long.
 

Luigi Vampa

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Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
3,225
And your solution is....
Increase taxes by €20b, that will really stimulate the economy and make Ireland an attractive place to do business.
Or
Do nothing and wait for someone else to make us do it.
Much simpler, don’t nationalise 70 billion of private sector speculation debt.
 

Goodbody

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Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
1,481
I think it is more correct to say that a group of private sector folks (Banks, Speculators), together with a group of public sector folks (Government, Dept of Finance, Central Bank, Regulator), one group fueled by a mania among a large part of the population, and the other intimidated by that mania, all combined to bring a financial calamity upon the state.
 
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