Production-line Childbirth

Half Nelson

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We've had the scandals of symphysiotomies and unwarranted hysterectomies yet it seems the States attitude to pregnant women remains unchanged.
A symphysiotomy was ‘done for her own good’; the same reasoning used for unnecessary hysterectomies and here we go again -

SUPPORTERS OF a woman’s right to have a home birth say the practice could be driven underground if new legislation is passed....

C. would not have been allowed to have her second baby at home five weeks ago either because her first baby was born by Caesarean section. Under the bill, all women in her situation would have to give birth in a hospital....

From a practical point of view, if a pregnant woman refused to go to hospital 24 hours after her waters had broken, the midwife would have to leave the scene under the new legislation.

Fight for home birth continues - The Irish Times - Tue, Oct 26, 2010

Straitjackets anybody?
 


uriah

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If the professionals involved consider the home birth to be a risk to the mother or the child, they should not be obliged to attend/take responsibility for this woman's delivery at home.

The mother has the freedom to choose whether to give birth at home without professional supervision, or to give birth in hospital as the professionals advised.
She just cannot force professionals to take responsibility for the risks her choice poses.
 
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FreshStart

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Most women opting for home births would be middle class and probably have health insurance. To go semi-private still costs about E4,000. Me thinks the government want to stamp this out because they don't want to miss out on those private health insurance payments.
 

florin

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If I'm having an operation, can I request the surgeons perform it in my garage?
 

Half Nelson

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If I'm having an operation, can I request the surgeons perform it in my garage?
Such an opinion
might be relevant if pregnancy was some kind of illness. It isn't.
I realise that's news to some people.
 
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If I'm having an operation, can I request the surgeons perform it in my garage?
That would depend on whether they were removing your spark plug or doing a refill, wouldn't it? I think a refill is called for myself.
 

Cincinnatus

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florin you're missing the point. Birth is a life event not a sickness. It is not in the operation category as such. Hospitals in relation to birth are wonderful when the mother and child do need intervention but this is actually a small percentage of women. The reality is that we should have 80-90% of women giving birth at home with one to one woman centred care and the 10-20% that need "an operation" in hospital. But women have been frightened out of their power and for the most part have very unsatisfactory birth experiences that don't do them, the baby or the future family any favours.
Birth is a natural process that most women can do very well given the right kind of support and environment. It is a statistical fact that intervention leads to more intervention. Plus this is just greedy medical profession tightening the net on the few free and empowered women who quite rightly see through it all.
 

niropiro

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We live in the 21st century - women should be giving birth in hospital.
Should we bring back leeches and bleeding to suit the troglydytes?
How about putting a wooden spoon between a patient's teeth and sawing off his leg?
Could we cautherise wounds with red hot pokers too?
 

Merovingian

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Such an opinion
might be relevant if pregnancy was some kind of illness. It isn't.
I realise that's news to some people.
The is a real risk of uterine rupture at the time of delivery in pregnancies subsequent to a Caesarian Section. If the mother wishes to assume the responsibility for that risk to her person, so be it. Whether she has the right to subject her child to that risk is debatable. You're right - Pregnancy is not an illness but how would you classify the rupture of a uterus in the final stages of labour??. If a professsional doesn't want to assume the responsibility for that risk can you blame them?.
 

Half Nelson

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Tricky one for sure and a bit unfair to lump this one in with symphosiotomies.
Really? I thought it a perfect parallel, from the point of view of the State and some medical professions joining forces to show women their place.
 

Merovingian

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Really? I thought it a perfect parallel, from the point of view of the State and some medical professions joining forces to show women their place.
From what I see most obstetricians are now women. Women showing women their place.....
 

Half Nelson

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The is a real risk of uterine rupture at the time of delivery in pregnancies subsequent to a Caesarian Section. If the mother wishes to assume the responsibility for that risk to her person, so be it. Whether she has the right to subject her child to that risk is debatable. You're right - Pregnancy is not an illness but how would you classify the rupture of a uterus in the final stages of labour??. If a professsional doesn't want to assume the responsibility for that risk can you blame them?.
Have you read the article?
 

Cruimh

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Really? I thought it a perfect parallel, from the point of view of the State and some medical professions joining forces to show women their place.
symphosiotomies were discredited in the medical world yet were continued in Ireland.

This is a different issue. We have much higher expectations and are much more litiginous these days. Go back to the days when most births were at home and you'll find a higher mortality rate.

When my third came into the world there were two mothers having unexpected problems in the unit - facilities were to hand and one doctor was able to deal with two simultaneously. That wouldn't have been possible if those two women had chosen home birth.

So - we have to weigh advantages and disadvantages.
 

Half Nelson

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deirdrem

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If I'm having an operation, can I request the surgeons perform it in my garage?
You can of course request that the operation be performed in a garage. Whether they will accede to your request is another matter.

Childbirth is yet another matter - it's not an operation, although some obstetricians seem to think that having it by caesarian between 9 and 5 is the best way to go.

Childbirth in hospital was not common until the 19th century, and there was immediately an outbreak of puerperal fever which didn't happen at home.
After 50 years or so, it was "discovered" that the obstetricians attending women weren't always very careful about cleaning their equipment.....

IIRC, in the Netherlands, something like 50% of births are home births.

But then, they have proper social services ove there.
 

gatsbygirl20

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I would not consider a home birth for reasons too complicated to address here. But the reason women want home births is largely because of their awful experiences in hospital. Despite the best efforts of overworked hospital staff, women invariably survive the experience with a grim "never again" attitude.

Everything about the hospital experience tends to frighten, pressure, and disempower women at a time when they need massive resources of strength, confidence, power....The interventions, rupturing of membranes, induction, against the clock count-downs, lack of privacy, crowded, noisy clattering spaces, ...

Like dying in hospital---noise, no privacy for family , TV on, no sense of respect or silence or reverence---giving birth in one is not a great experience either. Hospitals cannot deal with the slow time it takes for a mother, --in her own way and at her own pace,---to give birth. Once you are in hospital, you are on their clock, on their territory, in their medicalised environment.

Doctors, for very good and caring medical reasons usually, want to silence and sterilize the whole messy experience and make it quick, neat, efficient (and to be fair, safe) as possible. The will have no truck with the mystery of this humbling, life-changing, gravely important rite of passage, which is awful to witness in it's agony and intensity
. Everything about childbirth in its natural form seems to say: "Something terrible and important is happening here. A new person is coming into the world. Be still, do nothing, watch, stand back; have some reverence and respect"

My first child was born by caesarian, and I was very ill after the op. The reason it was performed was that my waters broke, and I was given 48 hours to deliver or else....With that threat, I could not do it. I almost made it, but was beaten by the clock.

I am still grateful to those who delivered my darling, healthy child. I am not a "home birth" person. I don't care where I give birth. But I feel for women who cannot have the choice. God knows, nature gives us few enough of those...
 

Half Nelson

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symphosiotomies were discredited in the medical world yet were continued in Ireland.

This is a different issue. We have much higher expectations and are much more litiginous these days. Go back to the days when most births were at home and you'll find a higher mortality rate.

When my third came into the world there were two mothers having unexpected problems in the unit - facilities were to hand and one doctor was able to deal with two simultaneously. That wouldn't have been possible if those two women had chosen home birth.

So - we have to weigh advantages and disadvantages.
Do the issues of personal freedom, personal responsibility and parental rights come into your equation or must we all have a say in a natural process .. for her own good of course.
We've got the bishops out of the bedrooms but it seems there's a power vacuum.
 

niropiro

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florin you're missing the point. Birth is a life event not a sickness. It is not in the operation category as such. Hospitals in relation to birth are wonderful when the mother and child do need intervention but this is actually a small percentage of women. The reality is that we should have 80-90% of women giving birth at home with one to one woman centred care and the 10-20% that need "an operation" in hospital. But women have been frightened out of their power and for the most part have very unsatisfactory birth experiences that don't do them, the baby or the future family any favours.
Birth is a natural process that most women can do very well given the right kind of support and environment. It is a statistical fact that intervention leads to more intervention. Plus this is just greedy medical profession tightening the net on the few free and empowered women who quite rightly see through it all.
Yes. Let's send all the pregnant girls down to the wise woman's shack.
Cauldron bubbling nearby, eye of newt soup and lots of cat's in attendence too no doubt? Give them back their power!:D

Down with all that male phallus science that is oppressing women!

 


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