Protestant/Unionist migration to NI

Joopface

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Hello.

Looking for referral to a source on numbers of Protestants and/or Unionists who lived south of the border, and migrated north of the border, from 1922 onwards. Also commentary on localised reasons for the migration.

Web or otherwise. Thanks in advance.
 


Malcolm Redfellow

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I'm glad to see you distinguish "protestants" and "unionists": the two terms are (in terms of post-1921 "southern" Ireland and what I see of your defined subject-area) pretty well mutually-exclusive.

So, is your essential point those who migrated "north"? Or is it a comparison of attitudes between those who emigrated (in the main, not to NI) and those who stayed?

If you want a general approach, I think I'd start with RB McDowell's Crisis and Decline: The Fate of the Southern Unionists [1997].

That was in part a (unionist) rebuttal of:
Bowen, Kurt: Protestants in a Catholic State: Ireland's Privileged Minority [1983].

For something more anecdotal (but well written), the late Mark Bence-Jones did Twilight of the Ascendancy [1993], mainly concerned with the cream of Anglo-Irish society (i.e. the rich and the thick). Unless you can find a second-hand copy, or a well-stocked library, the price should put you off.

FSL Lyons did a couple of earlier studies:
  • The Minority Problem in the 26 Counties in The Years of the Great Test, 1926–36, ed: Francis MacManus [1967],
  • Culture and Anarchy in Ireland, 1890–1939 [1979],

I wish you well: this is a battle zone full of land-mines and booby-traps.
 

White Horse

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Hello.

Looking for referral to a source on numbers of Protestants and/or Unionists who lived south of the border, and migrated north of the border, from 1922 onwards. Also commentary on localised reasons for the migration.

Web or otherwise. Thanks in advance.
There wasn't major movement north. I live in a border county and if anything, there was more movement of protestants into the the Irish Republic.
 

SevenStars

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There wasn't major movement north. I live in a border county and if anything, there was more movement of protestants into the the Irish Republic.
It could be considered weird....But the amount of northern Protestants who have over the years moved south is pretty huge. Understandable aswell given the fact that the south maybe bonkers but its not crazy.
 

mcdonald douglas

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Ireland,north and south belong in the UK.We speak the same language,have the same values,we belong together.
 

bogtrotter

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Ireland,north and south belong in the UK.We speak the same language,have the same values,we belong together.
How do you come to that conclusion...We only speak the same language because we were forced to speak it....And they also speak English in Canada, Australia and the USA so why not join one of them them as per your logic........
 

Portadown madman

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There wasn't major movement north.
Have you a valid link that's states this?

I was born in the south, my family have been in Ireland since the mid 1500's
Our only crime was that we was protestant.

After the south got it's independence from Britain,Protestants were treated like sh!te. being referred to as ''them'' and ''that protestant family''

My parents moved us to the North, yet my grandparents stayed because it was home. I wonder why many in my family have a bitter dislike of the south.
 
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diy01

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Only going back two or three generations, in most cases. (referring to the time of partition)
 
R

RepublicanSocialist1798

Have you a valid link that's states this?

I was born in the south, my family have been in Ireland since the mid 1500's
Our only crime was that we was protestant.

After the south got it's independence from Britain,Protestants were treated like sh!te. being referred to as ''them'' and ''that protestant family''

My parents moved us to the North, yet my grandparents stayed because it was home. I wonder why many in my family have a bitter dislike of the south.
Least unionists werent denied jobs or refused the right to vote in the south.

Unlike republicans up north.

By the way where did your family originally hail from in the south.
 

Sean O'Brian

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Ireland,north and south belong in the UK.We speak the same language,have the same values,we belong together.
Some of our values are quite different. How many monarchists are there in the ROI?
 

SideysGhost

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There's very little in the way of literature that isn't wildly biased one way or t'other really. Most of it is full of wild-eyed tales or propaganda of one form or another.

The numbers of Protestants in Ireland as a whole never mind the 26 counties had been steadily dwindling since the 1870s IIRC. When the British administration, civil servants and army etc left the 26 in 1922 there was obviously a large immediate step down in the numbers of Protestants remaining.

BUT, there doesn't actually seem to be much of an "exodus" post 1922. What really happened was that many Protestant communities scattered across the south had lost so many people between WWI and the British administration packing its bags and leaving that they had largely fallen below sustainability i.e. not enough Prods in the local area to ensure a decent Prod match for all the children. Mixed marriages were the natural and probably inevitable consequence. And of course this was the age of Ne Temere, so a mixed marriage effectively meant Catholic children.

And so you have a long slow dwindling of numbers from the 1920s to the 1990s when numbers stabilised and even started increasing again due to immigration.

Most discussions of anti-Protestant pogroms and fleeing refugees and so on all seem to focus on Cork, but the accuracy of these portrayals is heavily questionable. It seems likely there were some incidents, of unknown severity, in Cork for sure, but trying to establish the hard facts is almost impossible there's so much hysterical literature on both sides - claiming hundreds murdered in their beds and ships packed full of terrified refugees departing Cork harbour under fire on the one side; and vehement denials that anything happened at all in any way and everything was sunshine and lollipops on the other.

Personally I suspect the full truth will be rather dull but we do love our mad little myths in Ireland.
 

Sean O'Brian

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How many of you in the south will admit to having English blood??
I have Norman lineage on one side of my family. Not tecnically English but non-Gael certainly. What does that have to do with anything though? I'm saying that either the Irish would have to give up republicanism or the British would have to give up monarchy for a merger to happen. That's just one example of conflicting values.
 

eoghanacht

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There's very little in the way of literature that isn't wildly biased one way or t'other really. Most of it is full of wild-eyed tales or propaganda of one form or another.

The numbers of Protestants in Ireland as a whole never mind the 26 counties had been steadily dwindling since the 1870s IIRC. When the British administration, civil servants and army etc left the 26 in 1922 there was obviously a large immediate step down in the numbers of Protestants remaining.

BUT, there doesn't actually seem to be much of an "exodus" post 1922. What really happened was that many Protestant communities scattered across the south had lost so many people between WWI and the British administration packing its bags and leaving that they had largely fallen below sustainability i.e. not enough Prods in the local area to ensure a decent Prod match for all the children. Mixed marriages were the natural and probably inevitable consequence. And of course this was the age of Ne Temere, so a mixed marriage effectively meant Catholic children.

And so you have a long slow dwindling of numbers from the 1920s to the 1990s when numbers stabilised and even started increasing again due to immigration.

Most discussions of anti-Protestant pogroms and fleeing refugees and so on all seem to focus on Cork, but the accuracy of these portrayals is heavily questionable. It seems likely there were some incidents, of unknown severity, in Cork for sure, but trying to establish the hard facts is almost impossible there's so much hysterical literature on both sides - claiming hundreds murdered in their beds and ships packed full of terrified refugees departing Cork harbour under fire on the one side; and vehement denials that anything happened at all in any way and everything was sunshine and lollipops on the other.

Personally I suspect the full truth will be rather dull but we do love our mad little myths in Ireland.
Yeah, i'd say it was as mundane as you mentioned but there's no disputing Protestants were driven out but i doubt it really happened to the extent owen harris would have you believe.
 


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