Provision of Objective Sex Education Bill 2018

Lagertha

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There's no doubt that the teaching of Sex Ed needs to be overhauled and as others have said, it's a shame that all parents can't be relied upon to teach their kids, although just because a school teaches it doesn't mean that the parents can't talk to their children about sex. I'm all in favour of LGB being part of that but I really don't want Trans stuff on it.

The reason that I don't want Trans on it is because I think it just confuses children. We wouldn't ask a child of 8 or 10 to commit to a career choice for life so why let them make an irreversible change to their bodies at that time? A child is too young to vote, too young to have sex, too young to buy alcohol but we have people arguing that they should be allowed to start medical treatments to transition and start living as the opposite gender at that age. I think that's wrong. If a sane adult wants to live as Transgender then fire away, I've no problem with that.
 


livingstone

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Rubbish, it's taught as *religion*, a belief system, not claiming to be dependent on facts.
That's just not true. The six year old kid learning about the nativity isn't taught 'now, Christians believe that the Angel Gabriel appeared...'. They are taught it as historical truth.

Ok objective facts: some people, mainly men, and mainly for sexual reasons, develop an intense wish to be the opposite sex, and develop problems about the reality that they are not. To date psychotherapy hasn't an answer (hasn't been allowed to try to find an answer in recent years) and anyway there would be extreme resistance from these mainly males, who couldn't bear to abandon their dream/wish of being female. So as the apparently least worst option, we allow (and pay for) these males, to get hormones, surgery, etc. so they can develop the boobs and other bits they want.

Those aren't objective facts, though.

Is there some reason we need to tell young school children about these let's say "unusual" adult males who crave having female bodies? I don't think so.
The reason we should educate kids that trans people exist is because some of them will be trans, and some of them will encounter trans people in their lives. If we can avoid kids growing up with the sort of ignorance that you display in this post alone, that will have the effect of making the lives of trans people better, reducing the risks they face, and lead to a more educated and informed population generally.
 

livingstone

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There's no doubt that the teaching of Sex Ed needs to be overhauled and as others have said, it's a shame that all parents can't be relied upon to teach their kids, although just because a school teaches it doesn't mean that the parents can't talk to their children about sex. I'm all in favour of LGB being part of that but I really don't want Trans stuff on it.

The reason that I don't want Trans on it is because I think it just confuses children. We wouldn't ask a child of 8 or 10 to commit to a career choice for life so why let them make an irreversible change to their bodies at that time? A child is too young to vote, too young to have sex, too young to buy alcohol but we have people arguing that they should be allowed to start medical treatments to transition and start living as the opposite gender at that age. I think that's wrong. If a sane adult wants to live as Transgender then fire away, I've no problem with that.
What irreversible changes to their body do you think a child is going to (a) want to and (b) be allowed to make to their bodies at 8 or 10 just because they learn that some people are trans?
 

Lagertha

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What irreversible changes to their body do you think a child is going to (a) want to and (b) be allowed to make to their bodies at 8 or 10 just because they learn that some people are trans?
You know exactly what I mean. Why are you being so obtuse about the Trans issue?
 
D

Deleted member 17573

What irreversible changes to their body do you think a child is going to (a) want to and (b) be allowed to make to their bodies at 8 or 10 just because they learn that some people are trans?
So teacher in a class of 6 year olds is explaining the correct use of pronouns to her charges - "Now children, we refer to a man as he, and a woman as she. For example, we say 'Daddy went to the shop and he bought ice cream that he brought home to Mummy. And it was Mummy's favorite favour so she ate all the icecream and left none for me (the greedy b1tch)".

So far so good, but then teacher moves on -

" But sometimes, children, Mummy is not always a she because she used to be a man until he decided to become a girl, and she is now the Mummy? Do you all understand?"

Children ::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Johnny in the back row : Did the greedy b1tch still eat all the ice cream, Miss?
 

NativeWildCat

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Let's hope this bill finally includes proper education for public restroom etiquette for the LGBTQDFGDFDFSFDGFGHGHHJHHUJHGHGHFGGDHFGUK commuinty.
 

Roisin3

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It’s amazing how any of us came to be with the lack of sex education that there was in Ireland.

I find adults who take too great an interest in sex education a bit creepy, like they can’t wait to tell the childer all about the birds and the bees.
 

livingstone

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You know exactly what I mean. Why are you being so obtuse about the Trans issue?
It's not obtuse to expect you to back up an assertion.

The reason you're dodging is because 8 and 10 year olds don't make irreversible changes to their bodies simply by learning that people are trans.

For one thing, irreversible changes - gender reassignment hormones and surgery are not available to those kids, precisely because they lack capacity to consent to them.

For another thing, learning that trans people exist doesn't make kids trans, any more than learning that gay people exist.

The only possible thing you could be thinking of is puberty blockers for trans kids. Those are not irreversible, and it is a medical decision as to whether the medical risks of those puberty blockers (which are pretty limited) are greater than the psychological risks of going through puberty as, say, a male for a child that identifies as a female. We know that the latter is usually very significant, and very often is extremely traumatic for a trans child. But if they make the wrong decision, or change their mind, then they can stop taking them and go through puberty as normal, but at a later point.

What you call obtuse is actually simply using facts, rather than incorrect assertions, to form a view on something. And exposing this anti-trans nonsense in the process.
 

NativeWildCat

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It’s amazing how any of us came to be with the lack of sex education that there was in Ireland.

I find adults who take too great an interest in sex education a bit creepy, like they can’t wait to tell the childer all about the birds and the bees.
I know. You can just imagine the kids while this class is about to start. "we already know all this, we've got TV now. A knob goes in a fanny and bang, kids produced."

Teacher "ahhh, but have you considered the wonders of putting it in an 'rse hole?"
 

Roisin3

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I know. You can just imagine the kids while this class is about to start. "we already know all this, we've got TV now. A knob goes in a fanny and bang, kids produced."

Teacher "ahhh, but have you considered the wonders of putting it in an 'rse hole?"

Doubt the teachers have any great interest in teaching anything more than they do already. It’s the weird people outside looking in who obsess over the minutiae and advancing change, because change keeps them occupied, and employed in many cases. All first world problems.
 

making waves

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So teacher in a class of 6 year olds is explaining the correct use of pronouns to her charges - "Now children, we refer to a man as he, and a woman as she. For example, we say 'Daddy went to the shop and he bought ice cream that he brought home to Mummy. And it was Mummy's favorite favour so she ate all the icecream and left none for me (the greedy b1tch)".

So far so good, but then teacher moves on -

" But sometimes, children, Mummy is not always a she because she used to be a man until he decided to become a girl, and she is now the Mummy? Do you all understand?"

Children ::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Johnny in the back row : Did the greedy b1tch still eat all the ice cream, Miss?
You are now reminding me of the Denis Allen sketch about his first day at school.
 

making waves

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It’s amazing how any of us came to be with the lack of sex education that there was in Ireland.

I find adults who take too great an interest in sex education a bit creepy, like they can’t wait to tell the childer all about the birds and the bees.
Try talking to a few teachers and hear about the stuff school children (particularly the 13-15 year olds) get up to.

Doubt the teachers have any great interest in teaching anything more than they do already. It’s the weird people outside looking in who obsess over the minutiae and advancing change, because change keeps them occupied, and employed in many cases. All first world problems.
Most teachers want proper objective sex education taught - and would have no problem teaching an objective RSE programme. There will always be a few who would decline - because of reactionary religious views or because they feel a bit intimidated about discussing sex with a classroom of teenagers etc. - nobody would force them. For school students it is an absolute necessity given the necessary objective education in sex, relationships, consent and a myriad of other issues that are part of the life of a school student in today's world of the Internet and social media.
 

making waves

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Mar 2, 2010
Messages
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There's no doubt that the teaching of Sex Ed needs to be overhauled and as others have said, it's a shame that all parents can't be relied upon to teach their kids, although just because a school teaches it doesn't mean that the parents can't talk to their children about sex. I'm all in favour of LGB being part of that but I really don't want Trans stuff on it.

The reason that I don't want Trans on it is because I think it just confuses children. We wouldn't ask a child of 8 or 10 to commit to a career choice for life so why let them make an irreversible change to their bodies at that time? A child is too young to vote, too young to have sex, too young to buy alcohol but we have people arguing that they should be allowed to start medical treatments to transition and start living as the opposite gender at that age. I think that's wrong. If a sane adult wants to live as Transgender then fire away, I've no problem with that.
All sex education should be age appropriate - and school students don't even bat an eyelid when someone transitions from one gender to another. The only people who seem to take issue are adults who think it is an issue among young people - it's not.
 


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