Psni 50/50

Marcella

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
4,007
Do you have any bright ideas as to what to do about it?
The immediate re-introduction of 50-50 quotas would be a good start.

The argument for ending this policy was that it was no longer needed and that Catholic representation in the force would increase naturally once the 'critical mass' of 30% was reached. The last few years have proven this argument to be complete bs.
 


devonish

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
3,840
The immediate re-introduction of 50-50 quotas would be a good start.

The argument for ending this policy was that it was no longer needed and that Catholic representation in the force would increase naturally once the 'critical mass' of 30% was reached. The last few years have proven this argument to be complete bs.
But the problem relates to not enough candidates coming forward from a catholic background, are you suggesting that if the police need to recruit 400 but only 50 catholics apply then they only recruit 100 and operate on an under strength basis?
 

Mickeymac

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2010
Messages
41,807
The immediate re-introduction of 50-50 quotas would be a good start.

The argument for ending this policy was that it was no longer needed and that Catholic representation in the force would increase naturally once the 'critical mass' of 30% was reached. The last few years have proven this argument to be complete bs.


You can bet your proverbial bottom dollar that dopey British SOS will be asked about this in DC tomorrow Marcella.
 

CastleRay

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
9,162
But the problem relates to not enough candidates coming forward from a catholic background, are you suggesting that if the police need to recruit 400 but only 50 catholics apply then they only recruit 100 and operate on an under strength basis?
I agree. More RCs need to apply and that is the challenge, not discriminating against those based on their religious background who apply and meet the criteria.
 

Se0samh

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
16,594
I'd guess that women and gays are significantly under represented in police forces throughout the world. The issue is, to what extent do you discriminate in their favour? do you restrict recruitment to try and rebalance? I suspect that the dissident republican threat is the main factor for a lack of recruits from a catholic background possibly along with a culture built up over many years of not considering the police as a career, the obvious option is to recruit from the republic.
There is that of course, but it doesn't entirely explain recruitment drop or the high drop out rate of those from a catholic background.
 

Mickeymac

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2010
Messages
41,807
There is that of course, but it doesn't entirely explain recruitment drop or the high drop out rate of those from a catholic background.

They hold inquiries for dopey things, why not hold one for this departure from the Patten Proposals?
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,782
This is worrying but at the same time in all justice to the PSNI Orange men and fleggers refer to them as the "Papal Service of Northern Ireland" so they must be doing something right.
 

Mickeymac

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2010
Messages
41,807
This is worrying but at the same time in all justice to the PSNI Orange men and fleggers refer to them as the "Papal Service of Northern Ireland" so they must be doing something right.


Ratio,
That would suggest they would be totally against any future parity.
 

Marcella

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
4,007
But the problem relates to not enough candidates coming forward from a catholic background, are you suggesting that if the police need to recruit 400 but only 50 catholics apply then they only recruit 100 and operate on an under strength basis?

In short yes. Recruit 100 and go again and so on and so on.


Having Catholics making up a clear majority of the under 35s yet so grossly under represented in their police service is simply not sustainable.
 
Last edited:

CastleRay

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
9,162
In short yes. Recruit 100 and go again and so on and so on.


Having Catholics making up a clear majority of the under 35s yet so grossly under represented in their police service is simply not sustainable.
What is Political Nationslism doing to encourage RCs to join the PSNI?
 

O'Sullivan Bere

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
15,726
What is Political Nationslism doing to encourage RCs to join the PSNI?
Agreed...it's certainly a self-fulfilling prophecy to a notable extent as to why the CNR numbers aren't as high as they should be. What's the BFD about joining the PSNI anymore along those grounds in the post GFA times?
 

Strawberry

Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
17,139
Agreed...it's certainly a self-fulfilling prophecy to a notable extent as to why the CNR numbers aren't as high as they should be. What's the BFD about joining the PSNI anymore along those grounds in the post GFA times?
What's causing the high drop out rate of Catholic recruits who do join the PSNI? Answer that and you might be able to answer your own question.
 

Strawberry

Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
17,139
How can 50:50 recruitment solve a drop out rate?
I never said it could. Just pointing out that you might find out what the problem is with Catholics joining the PSNI if you find out why so many of the ones who did join, left.
 

CastleRay

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
9,162
I never said it could. Just pointing out that you might find out what the problem is with Catholics joining the PSNI if you find out why so many of the ones who did join, left.
It'd be interesting to know. Would exit interviews have been done and would they be accurate? It's hard to know but there might be some trend emerging.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
15,726
What's causing the high drop out rate of Catholic recruits who do join the PSNI? Answer that and you might be able to answer your own question.
I did put up a few reasons why, and I don't think it's quite as simple as you mentioned.

Perceptions are not always reality for starters. Ingrained bias has its own self limitations, especially if you're from a hard core republican household that doesn't approve of anything that appears to be working for the 'British Establishment' and whatnot and/or has any kind of associations with the past.

Another is that IMO many RCs that go to advanced schooling are simply not interested in the job. They're often looking to do whatever it is they studied, and certainly so for white collar work and seeking lucre. Police work is often viewed, rightly and wrongly, as a blue collar job and/or civil servant's job, especially by people who already have military or civil servant connections and experience, and that ties into the 'British Admin' issue above.

It's also not exactly the easiest job. They have to police many economically distressed areas with all the tribal and political BS to boot. How appealing may that be to a person from Creggan, the Falls Road, etc? Given the BS from the job itself plus the BS they'll get from their home areas being strongly republican/nationalist and their other issues, there's easier ways to make a living.
 

Strawberry

Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
17,139
It'd be interesting to know. Would exit interviews have been done and would they be accurate? It's hard to know but there might be some trend emerging.
If I was to take a guess, there would be at least three trends emerging - intimidation from dissident reps, hassle from some among their colleagues who are former RUC and resent the passing of the ancien regime, and alienation from decent, law abiding Catholics who aren't used to having police officers among their friends and neighbours. Add the usual stresses and strains of the job to all that and I think that would explain it.
 

Strawberry

Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
17,139
I did put up a few reasons why, and I don't think it's quite as simple as you mentioned.

Perceptions are not always reality for starters. Ingrained bias has its own self limitations, especially if you're from a hard core republican household that doesn't approve of anything that appears to be working for the 'British Establishment' and whatnot and/or has any kind of associations with the past.

Another is that IMO many RCs that go to advanced schooling are simply not interested in the job. They're often looking to do whatever it is they studied, and certainly so for white collar work and seeking lucre. Police work is often viewed, rightly and wrongly, as a blue collar job and/or civil servant's job, especially by people who already have military or civil servant connections and experience, and that ties into the 'British Admin' issue above.

It's also not exactly the easiest job. They have to police many economically distressed areas with all the tribal and political BS to boot. How appealing may that be to a person from Creggan, the Falls Road, etc? Given the BS from the job itself plus the BS they'll get from their home areas being strongly republican/nationalist and their other issues, there's easier ways to make a living.
You make a good point about why the job wouldn't be attractive to many in the first place, but I was really only talking about the ones who did find it attractive enough to join, then left. There's something going on with them that's not explained by the general unattractiveness of blue collar jobs and/or police work.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
15,726
You make a good point about why the job wouldn't be attractive to many in the first place, but I was really only talking about the ones who did find it attractive enough to join, then left. There's something going on with them that's not explained by the general unattractiveness of blue collar jobs and/or police work.
I mentioned some of that too. Some of it is tied to the last issue I mentioned above. If it didn't discourage you from joining, it can encourage you to leave too.

But IMO the PSNI also doesn't take as good of care of its personnel as it should. It's like they're expected to take an arse whooping for starters when it comes to rioters, nasty drunks they have to deal with outside pubs and late night house calls to wife beaters and such at 2am, etc. Where's the protection and punishment of people who attack cops?

They don't get the kind of stress care they need given the job's heightened tense situations and activities. How is it dealt with? It's the classic old Irish way of 'run it off/suck it up' that in many aspects are entirely counterproductive. As well intended as he was, that's why the police chief got in hot water over his twitter remarks the other week. If you report your stress, then the officer fears he or she may lose promotion chances and such.

The really sad part is that in the pure civilian unionised sector, stress has become the new 'bad back' excuse for lazy louts looking for lots of extra paid holiday and layabouts, and a common threat made against staff and bosses that fear firing the lout will cost excessive entanglement in litigation. But jobs that actually cause stress like that? It's underwhelming how it's handled.

Then there's the problem of preparing a case for prosecution that never gets properly prosecuted thanks to undue leniency in charging and sentencing, a ridiculously slow prosecution process that triggers serious speedy trial concerns, and also how they don't get what they need to investigate cases as they should. It's frustrating and discouraging to investigate and arrest scum and see it given short shrift. If you don't feel like you're making a difference and, worse, not being taken seriously, then why bother and quit is the answer to some.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top