PSNI view effigy burning as a "Family Event"

tiocfaidh

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"One of Derry's most senior police officers has hailed the Lundy parade in Derry's city centre as a successful family event..." Yes, a family event where a bigger-than-life effigy of Lundy is burned to the ground. What wholesome, benign, family fun!

What an idiotic thing to say. And people wonder why nationalists hesitate to support the police.

It is a huge obstacle to progress when the police reinforce this archaic celebration of hatred and division.

Lundy parade passes peacefully - Derry Today
 


eoghanacht

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You do realise they burn Guy Fawkes effigies in england on the 5th/11th
 

Tedkins

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I'm pretty sure Guy Fawkes Night is seen as a family night, and its usually successful in terms of it being successful.

Do you believe British Catholics should withdraw their support from the authorities that facilitate such an event?

I think they're probably more mature than that.
 

tiocfaidh

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You do realise they burn Guy Fawkes effigies in england on the 5th/11th
I am not saying a free society should not allow groups to burn effigies of whoever they want, as long as it is done safely and can not reasonably be considered to potentially incite a riot. I am saying the police in a non-sectarian country wouldn't be so obviously supportive of an event that is part of the problem, not the solution.
 

Green eyed monster

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I wonder would his opinion be the same if it was an effigy of a PSNI officer that was burned? Given that someone got a jail sentence a while back for shouting Tiocfaidh ar la on the streets of NI, i doubt it would be taken lightly, 'disturbing the peace' or 'inciting hatred or civil disorder' or something would be invoked.

You do realise they burn Guy Fawkes effigies in england on the 5th/11th
They actually burn effigies of the Pope, including specifically of Benedict at those events.

Britain has a weird relationship with Catholicism.
 

Cruimh

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I wonder would his opinion be the same if it was an effigy of a PSNI officer that was burned? Given that someone got a jail sentence a while back for shouting Tiocfaidh ar la on the streets of NI, i doubt it would be taken lightly, 'disturbing the peace' or 'inciting hatred or civil disorder' or something would be invoked.

They actually burn effigies of the Pope, including specifically of Benedict at those events.

Britain has a weird relationship with Catholicism.
Not just the Pope - Wayne Rooney has also been honoured ;)
 

SevenStars

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It is a huge obstacle to progress when the police reinforce this archaic celebration of hatred and division.

Lundy parade passes peacefully - Derry Today
Wasnt Lundy a Protestant though?

And well the whole Williamite wars were between two English Kings.

Honestly though I prepared to be proven wrong the whole Apprentice Boys thing seems pretty harmless.
 

tiocfaidh

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I'm pretty sure Guy Fawkes Night is seen as a family night, and its usually successful in terms of it being successful.
I think a non-sectarian police force would have the common sence and decency not to label as family fun something that is clearly divisive and political. FFS, if a heavy police presence is required, and barricades sometimes erected, it is clear what sort of potential exists. For a senior police officer to call this event a "family event" is nonsence. It is not. So he is not only just wrong on that count, but I would bet that he is hypocritical as well: Would he have said the same if it was a Hunger Strike commemoration and an effigy of Thatcher was burned?

Guy Fawkes Night - no, I don't think that's harmless family fun either, though i do think those events are generally less antagonistic than the Lundy parade.


Do you believe British Catholics should withdraw their support from the authorities that facilitate such an event?

I think they're probably more mature than that.

It's not the facilitation that I object to. Police should facilitate, as groups have a right to present their point of view. Rather, it is the blatant one-sided endorsement of one political side that I have a problem with. The police here, is recognition of the past, need to be MORE conscious, not LESS, of the message that they are sending.
 

tiocfaidh

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Quite a few religions celebrate a poor blighter actually being nailed to a cross every year .... I guess that should be frowned on as well.
Touche, Cruimh. :)

But seriously I think that is different: it's the fact that the police choose to endorse this and call it something that's good for children while at the same time acknowledging that there is a very good chance for riot, violence, and general trouble. Easter and Christmas celebrations/commemoration that depict Christ on the cross cannot reasonably be considered likely to cause to a riot.
 

Cruimh

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Touche, Cruimh. :)

But seriously I think that is different: it's the fact that the police choose to endorse this and call it something that's good for children while at the same time acknowledging that there is a very good chance for riot, violence, and general trouble. Easter and Christmas celebrations/commemoration that depict Christ on the cross cannot reasonably be considered likely to cause to a riot.
We are going on a press comment mate - do the police really "endorse" these sorts of events ? As long as other agencies decide they are legal then they have a duty to police them - in the same way as I'm sure they don't endorse anti-internment rallies or other republican events.

In this case they seem to have praised the organisers, community representatives ( presumably from both sides of the fence) and everybody elseinvolved for ensuring they did their best to make it happen in a good atmosphere and stayed trouble-free - a family event rather than a hate-fest. Surely that is a good thing ?

One thing for sure - you catch more flies with honey than vinegar!
 

tiocfaidh

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We are going on a press comment mate - do the police really "endorse" these sorts of events ? As long as other agencies decide they are legal then they have a duty to police them - in the same way as I'm sure they don't endorse anti-internment rallies or other republican events.

In this case they seem to have praised the organisers, community representatives ( presumably from both sides of the fence) and everybody elseinvolved for ensuring they did their best to make it happen in a good atmosphere and stayed trouble-free - a family event rather than a hate-fest. Surely that is a good thing ?

One thing for sure - you catch more flies with honey than vinegar!
My take on it was indeed an endorsement - something a police officer in his official capacity chose to say was something harmless and appropriate for children. I believe that is a tacit endorsement of the political stance behind the event. I do not believe the same comment would have been made regarding an anti-internment rally or other republican event. If I am wrong then absolutely I stand to be corrected and my apologies to the officer.

As for "more flies with honey", fair enough mo chara. If the officer truly was only praising the fact that the event went off without trouble, and thanking both sides for that, then fair play for his intent, but I think he needs to consider his words a bit better. But if I'm the only nationalist who thinks this is an issue, maybe I'll just have a wee drop and off to bed.
 

Molly Maguire

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Wasnt Lundy a Protestant though?

And well the whole Williamite wars were between two English Kings.
Father and son in law but our dear unionists friends don,t that being pointed out.

And good old King Billy was Dutch not English.
 

Molly Maguire

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"One of Derry's most senior police officers has hailed the Lundy parade in Derry's city centre as a successful family event..." Yes, a family event where a bigger-than-life effigy of Lundy is burned to the ground. What wholesome, benign, family fun!

What an idiotic thing to say. And people wonder why nationalists hesitate to support the police.

It is a huge obstacle to progress when the police reinforce this archaic celebration of hatred and division.

Lundy parade passes peacefully - Derry Today
Would be interesting to know if Martin is a member of any lodge, orange or otherwise.
 

Evergreenfinch

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Touche, Cruimh. :)

But seriously I think that is different: it's the fact that the police choose to endorse this and call it something that's good for children while at the same time acknowledging that there is a very good chance for riot, violence, and general trouble. Easter and Christmas celebrations/commemoration that depict Christ on the cross cannot reasonably be considered likely to cause to a riot.
The Notting hill carnival is regarded as a family event every year yet the Met have to treat it as the possibility of becoming a full scale riot situation any second. Planning for such a scenario is his job, even if it never happens.
 

Donaill

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I would be of the opinion that it's time to leave religion behind us, it seems to cause more conflict and division than anything. To me it represents nothing but an archaic superstision. How about this, We are all wrong!!!:shock:
God is Imaginary - 50 simple proofs
 

Northern Voice

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How is the burning of Lundy sectarian? He wasn't a Catholic and has nothing to doing with Irish nationalism whatsoever. Another case of "ashamed of nothing, offended by everything" I suppose.
 

Mickeymac

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"One of Derry's most senior police officers has hailed the Lundy parade in Derry's city centre as a successful family event..." Yes, a family event where a bigger-than-life effigy of Lundy is burned to the ground. What wholesome, benign, family fun!

What an idiotic thing to say. And people wonder why nationalists hesitate to support the police.

It is a huge obstacle to progress when the police reinforce this archaic celebration of hatred and division.

Lundy parade passes peacefully - Derry Today




This so called police officer is either incompetant or one who refuses to let go of NI 's past sectarian policing.

In such a deeply divided society and in a situation like this, the past has told us all that stunts like these costs lives.



Suspend/fire him immediately in the interests of justice and fair play for all.
 

Mickeymac

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The Notting hill carnival is regarded as a family event every year yet the Met have to treat it as the possibility of becoming a full scale riot situation any second. Planning for such a scenario is his job, even if it never happens.



The Notting Hill event can not be compared with some little grubby sectarian coat trailing exercise in the sick counties.



The Notting Hill event on the other hand involves the Met in policing a million people on the streets at the same time and is seen by many over the years as a confidence building exercise between the London police and the black community.
 


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