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Public debate: Brexit - an opportunity for Irish republicanism

Tiocfaidh_Armani

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This is a debate that should interest those interested in developments and how they can be of substance to achieving a united Ireland.


We have a diverse panel and all are welcome to come and take part.
 


Spanner Island

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Is it going to be a positive inclusive debate that has a vision of positive unification or is there a danger that flag waving rabble singing rebel songs and banging on about comrades and the Brits etc. will dominate the event?

There is an 'opportunity' post Brexit... there is no doubt about that.

And the least hassle and potentially smoothest way it could play out would be for Scottish independence first which would make any unionists hankering after sticking with London look pretty stupid seeing as most NI/UK roots are Scottish roots.

Then after Scottish independence it would make sense for an NI poll if it was perceived that a shift had occurred in NI... either towards some sort of autonomy with a Celtic Union developed including RoI, NI and Scotland or alternatively to go down the UI route.
 

blokesbloke

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Is it going to be a positive inclusive debate that has a vision of positive unification or is there a danger that flag waving rabble singing rebel songs and banging on about comrades and the Brits etc. will dominate the event?

There is an 'opportunity' post Brexit... there is no doubt about that.

And the least hassle and potentially smoothest way it could play out would be for Scottish independence first which would make any unionists hankering after sticking with London look pretty stupid seeing as most NI/UK roots are Scottish roots.

Then after Scottish independence it would make sense for an NI poll if it was perceived that a shift had occurred in NI... either towards some sort of autonomy with a Celtic Union developed including RoI, NI and Scotland or alternatively to go down the UI route.
Scotland had a referendum on independence and said no already.

Now of course they may decide otherwise in the future, but you can't predicate a united Ireland on Scottish independence. For the practical reason it might never happen, and for the moral reason that you can't force Scotland to leave the Union if it chooses not to just so you can have a united Ireland.

If a united Ireland is not possible without an independent Scotland it doesn't amount to much, to be honest.
 

GDPR

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Personally until there is Irexit I will definitely be voting to stay in any border poll; if there is Irexit I will probably abstain or maybe vote to join the ROI depending on how things stand than.
 

blokesbloke

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Personally until there is Irexit I will definitely be voting to stay in any border poll; if there is Irexit I will probably abstain or maybe vote to join the ROI depending on how things stand than.
Not an EU fan? Did you vote Brexit?
 

between the bridges

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APettigrew92

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Scotland had a referendum on independence and said no already.

Now of course they may decide otherwise in the future, but you can't predicate a united Ireland on Scottish independence. For the practical reason it might never happen, and for the moral reason that you can't force Scotland to leave the Union if it chooses not to just so you can have a united Ireland.

If a united Ireland is not possible without an independent Scotland it doesn't amount to much, to be honest.
A lot of young Scots I've had dealings with lead me to believe, in their opinions at least, that the Scotxit was overturned by the Elderly who wanted to protect their pension pots. Economic security.

Then during Brexit the elderly go in the opposite direction.

Now that Rule Britannia is floundering, perhaps the Scots would consider abandoning ship once more.
 

Spanner Island

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Scotland had a referendum on independence and said no already.

Now of course they may decide otherwise in the future, but you can't predicate a united Ireland on Scottish independence. For the practical reason it might never happen, and for the moral reason that you can't force Scotland to leave the Union if it chooses not to just so you can have a united Ireland.

If a united Ireland is not possible without an independent Scotland it doesn't amount to much, to be honest.
I'm not predicating a UI or an independent NI on Scottish independence. Nor is a UI dependent on it.

It's just the least hassle and least provocative option that I can see bb...

That's all.

And as for Scotland voting to remain in the union... it voted that way based on a union within the EU. There is evidence since Brexit of a large number of Scots who voted to stay in the union claiming they would vote the other way in the new post Brexit reality.

Whether or not they're telling porkies is debatable. Oil prices are still low after all... but then that won't always be the case.

Regardless, all bets are probably off now regarding the union post Brexit.
 

edifice.

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Scotland had a referendum on independence and said no already.

Now of course they may decide otherwise in the future, but you can't predicate a united Ireland on Scottish independence. For the practical reason it might never happen, and for the moral reason that you can't force Scotland to leave the Union if it chooses not to just so you can have a united Ireland.

If a united Ireland is not possible without an independent Scotland it doesn't amount to much, to be honest.
This misses the point somewhat. Scottish Independence introduces a radical and practical effect on the political entity known as the UK.

“A broken-up United Kingdom would not be in the interests of Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland, but especially not England.
Our [England's] voting power in the European Union would diminish. We'd slip down in the world league GDP tables. Our case for staying in the G8 would diminish and there could easily be an assault on our permanent seat in the UN. [security council]”
Jack Straw.

The Westminster view of the annual subvention for the Six Counties takes on a completely different hue as there would be no longer any strategic merit whatsoever to continue it.
 

blokesbloke

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This misses the point somewhat. Scottish Independence introduces a radical and practical effect on the political entity known as the UK.

Jack Straw.

The Westminster view of the annual subvention for the Six Counties takes on a completely different hue as there would be no longer any strategic merit whatsoever to continue it.
Quite so, but my point is that the poster claimed that there was no point in talking about a united Ireland unless Scottish independence happened first.

It may never happen, so if you truly want a united Ireland you'd want to find a way to do it without it being dependent on what another country decides to do.

It is about independence after all. If you have to wait for the Scots to do something it defeats the object.
 

NMunsterman

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How many pro Brexit speakers are there...
According to the Poster one of the 3 main speakers is anti-EU, Anthony Coughlan :

[/QUOTE]



A visit to "SpecSavers" would be an idea for you Bridget.
 

blokesbloke

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A lot of young Scots I've had dealings with lead me to believe, in their opinions at least, that the Scotxit was overturned by the Elderly who wanted to protect their pension pots. Economic security.

Then during Brexit the elderly go in the opposite direction.

Now that Rule Britannia is floundering, perhaps the Scots would consider abandoning ship once more.
Perhaps.

I am not too fúcked either way to be honest, I just want Article 50 to be triggered and the UK out. If Scotland then wishes to go independent then good luck to them.
 

edifice.

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Quite so, but my point is that the poster claimed that there was no point in talking about a united Ireland unless Scottish independence happened first.

It may never happen, so if you truly want a united Ireland you'd want to find a way to do it without it being dependent on what another country decides to do.

It is about independence after all. If you have to wait for the Scots to do something it defeats the object.
You don't have to wait but it is about utilising all opportunities on the way to it. Brexit/Scottish Independence are certainly potential opportunities however never rule out the Irish penchant for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
 

hollandia

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Scotland had a referendum on independence and said no already.

Now of course they may decide otherwise in the future, but you can't predicate a united Ireland on Scottish independence. For the practical reason it might never happen, and for the moral reason that you can't force Scotland to leave the Union if it chooses not to just so you can have a united Ireland.

If a united Ireland is not possible without an independent Scotland it doesn't amount to much, to be honest.
Scotland, as you know bb, had a referendum pre brexit. And the better together side claimed eh membership could only be maintained by remaining in the union. All is changed, utterly.
 

Spanner Island

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Quite so, but my point is that the poster claimed that there was no point in talking about a united Ireland unless Scottish independence happened first.

It may never happen, so if you truly want a united Ireland you'd want to find a way to do it without it being dependent on what another country decides to do.

It is about independence after all. If you have to wait for the Scots to do something it defeats the object.
If you're referring to my post - I did clarify this didn't I?

The Scottish independence route is the least hassle route that I can see.

I didn't state anywhere that a UI would only be possible in the event of Scottish independence.

It could happen with or without Scottish independence if there's a shift of opinion in NI.

The Scottish independence route would however, be the route I'd prefer to see as I regard it as the least provocative and potentially 'natural' route.

If Scotland goes indepndent the unionist argument to remain linked to London becomes very weak seeing as NI Unionist roots are predominently Scottish roots.
 
Last edited:

JCR

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Jul 22, 2009
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This is a debate that should interest those interested in developments and how they can be of substance to achieving a united Ireland.


We have a diverse panel and all are welcome to come and take part.
Alternatively you can go to Dublin Zoo and look at the monkeys.
 

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