Public sector Celtic Tiger pay restored,yet huge gap over private sector pay to become wider still in 2017 thanks to weak government coalition

patslatt

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Public sector Celtic Tiger pay restored,yet huge gap over private sector pay to become wider still in 2017 thanks to weak government coalition

Economist Dan O'Brien in Thursday's Irish Independent wrote that public sector pay has been restored to the Celtic Tiger peak with increases from pay increments based on time served. His analysis of pay figures for the 2017 budget indicates pay increases of about 3.5%. As a result of these surprising increases, the huge gap of the public sector pay average over the private sector average of about half will likely increase further.

There is no justification for the Irish 3.5% increases given that public sector pay is about the same as the the private sector average in France,Germany and many other EU countries and about 13% higher in Britain and Northern Ireland. The old public sector trade union argument that the high cost of living in Ireland justifies public sector pay increases could only be used to justify pay increases for all workers including the private sector. But it can't logically justify the Irish pay gap.

This ripoff Irish public sector pay bill and associated gold plated pensions for the top half of the workforce have undermined government services. Fewer workers can be recruited for the available budgets and hospitals which are labour intensive are particularly hard hit. Capital spending budgets have to be cut to pay for greedy pay demands, resulting in obsolete equipment and computer systems in hospitals, schools, universities,policing and many other areas of government.

What is to be done about this intolerable pay burden on taxpayers? A general election that elected a strong government in place of the present weak coalition with footloose independents would help. If the government can't control public sector pay, it could introduce equality of pensions entitlements between the public and private sectors. The public would not think it unreasonable for top half public sector workers to contribute to their own gold plated pensions through defined contribution plans. The latter plans have almost completely replaced the defined benefit plans which guaranteed a pension based on final salary in the private sector. Given the heavily indebted positions of government, business and workers, public sector pension entitlements of over €100 billion in today's money (about €100,000 per Irish family) could tip the country into another austerity programme in coming years as the population ages.
 


NYCKY

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Ireland needs a politician that can make Ireland grope again, er.. I meant great again.
 
D

Deleted member 48908

Ireland needs a politician that can make Ireland grope again, er.. I meant great again.
There were always rumors about Trevor Sargent, er.. I mean the boy's family emigrated.
 

JCR

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Its a pretty ridiculous situation that demonstrates a complete nonchalance about how you get your revenues operating properly in a country. Its extraordinary having made such huge errors in running the country we are making the exact same ones again.

This time however there can be no possible blame attached to banks, the Germans etc etc. The overall pay gap between private and public sector workers simply is not sustainable. This error is being compounded by the governments decision to keep upward pressure on house prices, to be funded directly from the exchequer.

You could say we need a general election alright, the problem is that what is happening seems to be what the people want and we do not have any politicians it seems willing to lay realities on the table. That's only happens when the Irish collective beligerence goes belly up once again and heads have to be taken out of the sand because the coffers have run dry once again.

Its pretty much a fact of Irish life.
 

ainm_eile

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That €850 million in additional public sector pay could have been invested in measures to reduce the cost of living for the population such as state construction of houses to bring down rents, or an improved health service, or investments in renewable energy, or developing ports, or whatever. That would have increased the real value of public sector salaries as well since they would have benefited from the reduced costs.

Instead we have brazen and selfish rent seeking by civil servants that clearly don't care in the slightest about private sector workers.
 

Jack O Neill

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That €850 million in additional public sector pay could have been invested in measures to reduce the cost of living for the population such as state construction of houses to bring down rents, or an improved health service, or investments in renewable energy, or developing ports, or whatever. That would have increased the real value of public sector salaries as well since they would have benefited from the reduced costs.

Instead we have brazen and selfish rent seeking by civil servants that clearly don't care in the slightest about private sector workers.

the private sector sheep are the ones to blame , they are the ones can stop it .
 

Clanrickard

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Economist Dan O'Brien in Thursday's Irish Independent wrote that public sector pay has been restored to the Celtic Tiger peak with increases from pay increments based on time served. His analysis of pay figures for the 2017 budget indicates pay increases of about 3.5%. As a result of these surprising increases, the huge gap of the public sector pay average over the private sector average of about half will likely increase further.

There is no justification for the Irish 3.5% increases given that public sector pay is about the same as the the private sector average in France,Germany and many other EU countries and about 13% higher in Britain and Northern Ireland. The old public sector trade union argument that the high cost of living in Ireland justifies public sector pay increases could only be used to justify pay increases for all workers including the private sector. But it can't logically justify the Irish pay gap.

This ripoff Irish public sector pay bill and associated gold plated pensions for the top half of the workforce have undermined government services. Fewer workers can be recruited for the available budgets and hospitals which are labour intensive are particularly hard hit. Capital spending budgets have to be cut to pay for greedy pay demands, resulting in obsolete equipment and computer systems in hospitals, schools, universities,policing and many other areas of government.

What is to be done about this intolerable pay burden on taxpayers? A general election that elected a strong government in place of the present weak coalition with footloose independents would help. If the government can't control public sector pay, it could introduce equality of pensions entitlements between the public and private sectors. The public would not think it unreasonable for top half public sector workers to contribute to their own gold plated pensions through defined contribution plans. The latter plans have almost completely replaced the defined benefit plans which guaranteed a pension based on final salary in the private sector. Given the heavily indebted positions of government, business and workers, public sector pension entitlements of over €100 billion in today's money (about €100,000 per Irish family) could tip the country into another austerity programme in coming years as the population ages.

It is a scandal but no politcal party will do anything about it.
 

Conor

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Economist Dan O'Brien in Thursday's Irish Independent wrote that public sector pay has been restored to the Celtic Tiger peak with increases from pay increments based on time served.
He's wrong.
 

hammer

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Looks like the PS want to take the entire "fiscal space" available and leave the rest of us with nothing.
 

blokesbloke

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Looks like the PS want to take the entire "fiscal space" available and leave the rest of us with nothing.
Pity Fine Gael isn't in government eh, shure they'd put a stop to all that nonsense!

Oh!
 

blokesbloke

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Not sure I believe this - so all of the pay deals like Haddington Road etc have now been fully reversed, and all public servants are now back on 2007 salaries and benefits?

Even if it is true, it's worth bearing in mind that 2007 was nine years ago and I assume there has been some inflation since then.

Even without the madness of the Celtic Tiger salaries will naturally increase over time anyway in line with prices and general cost of living - that's the way of things.

I certainly earn more now that I did in 2007.
 

Dynamo

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Economist Dan O'Brien in Thursday's Irish Independent wrote that public sector pay has been restored to the Celtic Tiger peak with increases from pay increments based on time served. His analysis of pay figures for the 2017 budget indicates pay increases of about 3.5%. As a result of these surprising increases, the huge gap of the public sector pay average over the private sector average of about half will likely increase further.

There is no justification for the Irish 3.5% increases given that public sector pay is about the same as the the private sector average in France,Germany and many other EU countries and about 13% higher in Britain and Northern Ireland. The old public sector trade union argument that the high cost of living in Ireland justifies public sector pay increases could only be used to justify pay increases for all workers including the private sector. But it can't logically justify the Irish pay gap.

This ripoff Irish public sector pay bill and associated gold plated pensions for the top half of the workforce have undermined government services. Fewer workers can be recruited for the available budgets and hospitals which are labour intensive are particularly hard hit. Capital spending budgets have to be cut to pay for greedy pay demands, resulting in obsolete equipment and computer systems in hospitals, schools, universities,policing and many other areas of government.

What is to be done about this intolerable pay burden on taxpayers? A general election that elected a strong government in place of the present weak coalition with footloose independents would help. If the government can't control public sector pay, it could introduce equality of pensions entitlements between the public and private sectors. The public would not think it unreasonable for top half public sector workers to contribute to their own gold plated pensions through defined contribution plans. The latter plans have almost completely replaced the defined benefit plans which guaranteed a pension based on final salary in the private sector. Given the heavily indebted positions of government, business and workers, public sector pension entitlements of over €100 billion in today's money (about €100,000 per Irish family) could tip the country into another austerity programme in coming years as the population ages.
.....Pratslatt in yet ANOTHER public service moan, yawn :roll:
 

beazlebottom

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Its a pretty ridiculous situation that demonstrates a complete nonchalance about how you get your revenues operating properly in a country. Its extraordinary having made such huge errors in running the country we are making the exact same ones again.

This time however there can be no possible blame attached to banks, the Germans etc etc. The overall pay gap between private and public sector workers simply is not sustainable. This error is being compounded by the governments decision to keep upward pressure on house prices, to be funded directly from the exchequer.

You could say we need a general election alright, the problem is that what is happening seems to be what the people want and we do not have any politicians it seems willing to lay realities on the table. That's only happens when the Irish collective beligerence goes belly up once again and heads have to be taken out of the sand because the coffers have run dry once again.

Its pretty much a fact of Irish life.
If we continue to elect idiots, do not be surprised that they continue to do really really stupid and self serving things!

And it appears that towering intellectual, the FFianna FF**wit housing spokesman, a representative of the Clowen dynasty, thinks a€600k house is a mansion! Clearly he has never tried to buy a showbox in South Dublin!
 

beazlebottom

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Looks like the PS want to take the entire "fiscal space" available and leave the rest of us with nothing.
Isn't that par for the course?

What the country needs is a Private Sector/Taxpayers Party who advocate on behalf of the people who actually work and produce the income and wealth which pays for Public goods. The interst of the private sector are largely subordinate to the interest of the Public Sector - and remember the majority of pols have come out of the Public Sector ( teachers, social workers, PS trade unionists). Time for the Private sector to fight back
 

Uganda

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If we continue to elect idiots, do not be surprised that they continue to do really really stupid and self serving things!

And it appears that towering intellectual, the FFianna FF**wit housing spokesman, a representative of the Clowen dynasty, thinks a€600k house is a mansion! Clearly he has never tried to buy a showbox in South Dublin!
Yes, but everything must be viewed through the prism of claara, where 600k would buy 2 mansions because only people like clowen want to live there.
 

patslatt

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the private sector sheep are the ones to blame , they are the ones can stop it .
All political parties pander to the highly organised public sector unions. Maybe that opens the door for a new demagogic right wing party to stand up for taxpayers if the public becomes disillusioned with establishment politicians in the next recession.
 
Last edited:

patslatt

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Pity Fine Gael isn't in government eh, shure they'd put a stop to all that nonsense!

Oh!
SCHIZOID FG
They've been in bed with lefty coalition partners so long, their right wing is schizoid. Red Tory would be a good description, which could be a compliment.
 

patslatt

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Apr 11, 2007
Messages
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Not sure I believe this - so all of the pay deals like Haddington Road etc have now been fully reversed, and all public servants are now back on 2007 salaries and benefits?

Even if it is true, it's worth bearing in mind that 2007 was nine years ago and I assume there has been some inflation since then.

Even without the madness of the Celtic Tiger salaries will naturally increase over time anyway in line with prices and general cost of living - that's the way of things.

I certainly earn more now that I did in 2007.
EUROZONE DEFLATION. ECONOMIC WARFARE.
In the eurozone in which Ireland competes, there is the constant threat of deflation, falling prices, in many countries. Crazy Celtic Tiger Benchmarking pay for the public sector gave out pay levels appropriate for the year 2030,yet the unions have the audacity to look for increases greater than private sector increases.This is economic warfare on taxpayers.
 

Fractional Reserve

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Things have to crash and burn five times worse than 2008 for anything to change , but it will happen right across Europe then the real fun starts.

Its a pretty ridiculous situation that demonstrates a complete nonchalance about how you get your revenues operating properly in a country. Its extraordinary having made such huge errors in running the country we are making the exact same ones again.

This time however there can be no possible blame attached to banks, the Germans etc etc. The overall pay gap between private and public sector workers simply is not sustainable. This error is being compounded by the governments decision to keep upward pressure on house prices, to be funded directly from the exchequer.

You could say we need a general election alright, the problem is that what is happening seems to be what the people want and we do not have any politicians it seems willing to lay realities on the table. That's only happens when the Irish collective beligerence goes belly up once again and heads have to be taken out of the sand because the coffers have run dry once again.

Its pretty much a fact of Irish life.
 


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