Public Sector Gravy.Fact and Fiction.

powderfinger

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This thread is an attempt to highlight practices incorporated into the Public Sector paybill that are either outmoded,excessive or now unjustified given the new economic reality.If anyone has any area that they know of be it anecdotal or factual,please add.
To kick the thread off I think that the allowances system of Garda pay needs restructuring.
The McCarthy Report highlighted that there are 57 separate allowances available for claiming as a Garda.
Minimum of €50m should be cut and half of all Garda stations shut down - The Irish Times - Fri, Jul 17, 2009

From Conor Lally's article.
Garda allowances: what they can claim
Rent Allowance (€58.9m in 2008)
“Whatever about the historical origins of this allowance, it is essentially treated as part of pay and is paid to every member up to and including Chief Superintendent.”
Premium Payments (€9.07m)
“Paid to members who are on leave [who] would ordinarily be entitled to claim unsocial hours allowance if they were not on leave.”
Clerical Allowance (€2.07m)
“Paid to officers engaged in clerical duties to compensate for loss of other allowances, particularly unsocial hours.”
Gaeltacht Allowance and Aran Island Allowance (€1.2m)
“For members serving in defined Gaeltacht areas who perform their duties through the medium of Irish and whose knowledge of the language is certified as adequate for that purpose. And (paid) to compensate members stationed on the Aran Islands for . . . costs of travel to and from the mainland.”
Uniform Grant and Allowance and Boot Allowance
(€50.4 m):
“Paid to members of
An Garda Síochána for the maintenance of uniform.”
Plain Clothes Allowance (€1.9m)
“Paid in lieu of uniform allowance for maintenance of plain clothes – clothes not provided.”
Non-Public Duty Allowances (€1.7m)
“Paid to members of An Garda Síochána who perform a duty of a non-public nature (eg inside sports stadiums, race meetings).”
 


smitchy2

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I would have to say all of these payments bar the uniform allowance should be scrapped.

The premium and clerical payments are a joke.

We know that any attempt to get rid of these allowances will be met with strikes or silent protests (like seen a the airports last year).

I don’t see the logic of paying gardai for doing easier work (clerical, stadium events, airport etc)
 

powderfinger

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I would have to say all of these payments bar the uniform allowance should be scrapped.

The premium and clerical payments are a joke.

We know that any attempt to get rid of these allowances will be met with strikes or silent protests (like seen a the airports last year).

I don’t see the logic of paying gardai for doing easier work (clerical, stadium events, airport etc)
McCarthy's recommendation for a review of allowances projects Annual savings of €50m Smitchy.The review would be conducted on a VFM basis.
Like yourself I can't see anything wrong with that suggestion.
 

Mitsui

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I suspect that this government may need to have the Guards onside quite badly before all this is over. So I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for cuts.
 

feargach

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In a report strongly supportive of the McCarthy document, the Rapist's and Burglar's Alliance praised the initiative to close down every second Garda station and proposed a policy to replace Garda vehicles with ecologically-friendly skateboards.
 

Clanrickard

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I suspect that this government may need to have the Guards onside quite badly before all this is over. So I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for cuts.
Why? Law abiding citizens protest in lawful ways no? Only louts, leftists and the like cause trouble.
 

hammer

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Government dont have the "bottle".

The allowances will stay. There will however be a cut of between 5% - 8%
 

Prester Jim

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These cuts are Thatcherite in nature and are an excellent precursor to privatisation of education, health and security.
Don't fight it, let it happen, won't we all be happier in our gated communities away from the grubby underclass.
 

TradCat

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“Paid to members who are on leave [who] would ordinarily be entitled to claim unsocial hours allowance if they were not on leave.”
Kafka re-written by Monty Python.

won't we all be happier in our gated communities away from the grubby underclass.
If you mean the people who burned my Mother's car out and smashed my side-window just for the hell of it then yes we would. Needless to say the crimes are unsolved.
 

powderfinger

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Sick leave arrangements.Teachers.

Teachers have the most generous sick leave arrangements in the Public Sector.
The entitlement to 31 days uncertified sick leave per annum at primary level is augmented by no requirement for production of a Medical Cert. unless the absence exceeds 3 consecutive days.*

I have heard anecdotally that in addition to the above scheme,a teacher who is parent of an ill child,can,on production of a valid Medical Cert(obviously in the child's name) claim paid sick leave if absent to look after the child.
Can anyone confirm that this is so?



*Source.Report of the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes. Vol 2 pg.59
 

sharper

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These cuts are Thatcherite in nature and are an excellent precursor to privatisation of education, health and security.
Don't fight it, let it happen, won't we all be happier in our gated communities away from the grubby underclass.
Eh so that's your entire contribution? Declare any cuts "Thatcherite" and part of some vast right wing conspiracy no matter what?
 

Prester Jim

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Eh so that's your entire contribution? Declare any cuts "Thatcherite" and part of some vast right wing conspiracy no matter what?
Yes, What of it?
 

Prester Jim

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Teachers have the most generous sick leave arrangements in the Public Sector.
The entitlement to 31 days uncertified sick leave per annum at primary level is augmented by no requirement for production of a Medical Cert. unless the absence exceeds 3 consecutive days.*

I have heard anecdotally that in addition to the above scheme,a teacher who is parent of an ill child,can,on production of a valid Medical Cert(obviously in the child's name) claim paid sick leave if absent to look after the child.
Can anyone confirm that this is so?



*Source.Report of the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes. Vol 2 pg.59
The length of time is rarely used by teachers as 1.4 days off was the average in 2007 even Fatt O`Beefe was forced to admit after initially lying FF style,
however, yes 31 days is unnecessarily long especially in the face of declining workers rights and expectations in the private sector.


The second item if true should either be for all in work or none. It would be a good thing to have if we could afford it but with certain provisos obviously.
 

Schuhart

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Needless to say the crimes are unsolved.
Yes, but the solution there is to make Garda pensions even more generous. How can you expect a detective to concentrate on your case if he's worried about whether he'll have an unjustifably large State-provided income in old age?
 

Prester Jim

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The Garda rates of pay were increased subversively with all the bonuses and allowances rather than openly giving pay rises as would be the simple and honest solution.
Simple and honest don't gel well with FF however.

I would argue that the Gardai are worth the money as their job is tougher than most but we simply don't have the money at the moment and I really don't think that gardai do their job well or vigorously enough as is amply evident from the number of white collar criminals strutting their ways about the country with impunity.
I fear the Gardai are what the RIC were; the bailliffs and protectors of the wealthy and powerful and harrassers of the common citizen for vested interests.
when they do their duty with the correct neutrality and concern I will fight alongside them for an increase in pay.
 

Conor

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Yes, but the solution there is to make Garda pensions even more generous. How can you expect a detective to concentrate on your case if he's worried about whether he'll have an unjustifably large State-provided income in old age?
Or we could pay them on a piecemeal basis for every crime successfully solved. I can't see anything going wrong with that.
 

Prester Jim

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Yes, but the solution there is to make Garda pensions even more generous. How can you expect a detective to concentrate on your case if he's worried about whether he'll have an unjustifably large State-provided income in old age?
Well making Garda answerable to a non political force such as a garda commission comprised of unaligned parties would be a start.
removing the political power of the minister of justice is absolutely paramount.
The oaf McDowell use the Gardai as his own pawns when he wished, banana republic style.

after that we need a properly funded and transparent fast track system to get the best people into the right positions.
The new promotion system is a step in the right direction but only time will tell if it is open to patronage.
 


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