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Public sector workers should contribute to thier own pensions in a tradeoff for any pay increases

patslatt

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Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
13,693
See Warning over return to Celtic Tiger wages - Independent.ie and http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/your-binmans-pension-better-than-yours-26763389.html

There are signs of militancy in demands of Irish public sector workers for pay increases,partly through restoration of cuts to Celtic Tiger pay. The latter was funded on once off taxes from the colossal construction bubble and pay had to be cut in the economic crash.

But even after cuts, average public sector pay has remained almost half as high again as the private sector average, compared to a pay premium of 13% in the UK public sector and discounts to private sector average pay in France and Germany. So statistically speaking, there are no grounds for increases in Irish public sector pay and a case can be made for a decade long freeze.

However, political parties in the present unstable political environment will be tempted to cave in to public sector pay demands with an eye to the risk of another general election in a relatively short time.

As a face saving political compromise, if public sector workers are given pay increases, they should be required to fund their own pensions just like private sector workers on far lower pay. That would make a dent in the estimated €120 billion in today's money that is the actuarial cost of unfunded public sector pension entitlements paid for on a pay-as-you-go basis. That is roughly three times the estimated €40 billion bank bailout.

The days when unfunded public sector pensions and jobs for life compensated for low public sector pay were generations ago. Given very high pay enjoyed by the upper half of the pay scales,their free gold plated pensions and jobs for life are highly questionable percs.
 
Last edited:


talkingshop

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Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
27,156
See Warning over return to Celtic Tiger wages - Independent.ie

There are signs of militancy in demands of Irish public sector workers for pay increases,partly through restoration of cuts to Celtic Tiger pay. The latter was funded on once off taxes from the colossal construction bubble and pay had to be cut in the economic crash.

But even after cuts, average public sector pay has remained almost half as high again as the private sector average, compared to a pay premium of 13% in the UK public sector and discounts to private sector average pay in France and Germany. So statistically speaking, there are no grounds for increases in Irish public sector pay and a case can be made for a decade long freeze.

However, political parties in the present unstable political environment will be tempted to cave in to public sector pay demands with an eye to the risk of another general election in a relatively short time.

As a face saving political compromise, if public sector workers are given pay increases, they should be required to fund their own pensions just like private sector workers on far lower pay. That would make a dent in the estimated €120 billion in today's money that is the actuarial cost of unfunded public sector pension entitlements paid for on a pay-as-you-go basis. That is roughly three times the estimated €40 billion bank bailout.

The days when unfunded public sector pensions and jobs for life compensated for low public sector pay were generations ago. Given very high pay enjoyed by the upper half of the pay scales,their free gold plated pensions and jobs for life are highly questionable percs.
Any pay restoration we get won't get near to bringing us back to pre-cuts level. So you can get lost basically if you think any small amount of pay restoration should be off-set by increasing pension contributions - i.e. no pay restoration.
 

OrderoftheDragon

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Jan 10, 2016
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Ah patt, have you seriously nothing better to do on a Saturday night ?...Sad little man.
 

Pabilito

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Feb 24, 2008
Messages
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Any pay restoration we get won't get near to bringing us back to pre-cuts level. So you can get lost basically if you think any small amount of pay restoration should be off-set by increasing pension contributions - i.e. no pay restoration.
Is pay restoration where you get to eat yesterday’s dinner again? .. or is it something to do with having your cake and paying for it?
 

Pabilito

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Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
5,635
See Warning over return to Celtic Tiger wages - Independent.ie

There are signs of militancy in demands of Irish public sector workers for pay increases,partly through restoration of cuts to Celtic Tiger pay. The latter was funded on once off taxes from the colossal construction bubble and pay had to be cut in the economic crash.

But even after cuts, average public sector pay has remained almost half as high again as the private sector average, compared to a pay premium of 13% in the UK public sector and discounts to private sector average pay in France and Germany. So statistically speaking, there are no grounds for increases in Irish public sector pay and a case can be made for a decade long freeze.

However, political parties in the present unstable political environment will be tempted to cave in to public sector pay demands with an eye to the risk of another general election in a relatively short time.

As a face saving political compromise, if public sector workers are given pay increases, they should be required to fund their own pensions just like private sector workers on far lower pay. That would make a dent in the estimated €120 billion in today's money that is the actuarial cost of unfunded public sector pension entitlements paid for on a pay-as-you-go basis. That is roughly three times the estimated €40 billion bank bailout.

The days when unfunded public sector pensions and jobs for life compensated for low public sector pay were generations ago. Given very high pay enjoyed by the upper half of the pay scales,their free gold plated pensions and jobs for life are highly questionable percs.
Can we restore the situation where Public Servants PAY for their own pensions!.. That’s what I call PAY RESTORATION!
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,911
The excuse used to be that Public Sector pensions made up for poor pay and conditions, however pay and conditions are way above private sector but still pensions get paid.

If you want a pension then pay for it not expect kids not born to do so.
 

Galloglass

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Joined
Jul 30, 2015
Messages
473
All Pension Schemes and Insurance Companies are Bankrupt......Too Big to Fail.....Welcome to the Corporate State.
Shhhh....Don't tell anyone though "real people" are still trying to get their "money" into "real" stuff like Water/Land/Air etc. before everything goes pop.
 

artfoley56

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
9,773
See Warning over return to Celtic Tiger wages - Independent.ie

There are signs of militancy in demands of Irish public sector workers for pay increases,partly through restoration of cuts to Celtic Tiger pay. The latter was funded on once off taxes from the colossal construction bubble and pay had to be cut in the economic crash.

But even after cuts, average public sector pay has remained almost half as high again as the private sector average, compared to a pay premium of 13% in the UK public sector and discounts to private sector average pay in France and Germany. So statistically speaking, there are no grounds for increases in Irish public sector pay and a case can be made for a decade long freeze.

However, political parties in the present unstable political environment will be tempted to cave in to public sector pay demands with an eye to the risk of another general election in a relatively short time.

As a face saving political compromise, if public sector workers are given pay increases, they should be required to fund their own pensions just like private sector workers on far lower pay. That would make a dent in the estimated €120 billion in today's money that is the actuarial cost of unfunded public sector pension entitlements paid for on a pay-as-you-go basis. That is roughly three times the estimated €40 billion bank bailout.

The days when unfunded public sector pensions and jobs for life compensated for low public sector pay were generations ago. Given very high pay enjoyed by the upper half of the pay scales,their free gold plated pensions and jobs for life are highly questionable percs.
All public sector workers recruited on or after April 1995 pay into their pensions. Get a life pat or at least get some facts
 

pedagogus

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May 12, 2010
Messages
2,564
All public sector workers recruited on or after April 1995 pay into their pensions. Get a life pat or at least get some facts
Not only that but Public Servants as opposed tp Civil Servants have ALWAYS paid for their pensions. Teachers, Gardai, nurses etc.always paid the 6.5% contribution and since the crash 15% on average.
 

patslatt

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Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
13,693
Any pay restoration we get won't get near to bringing us back to pre-cuts level. So you can get lost basically if you think any small amount of pay restoration should be off-set by increasing pension contributions - i.e. no pay restoration.
Even though Irish public sector pay is way out of line relative to the private sector average pay in comparisons with the UK next door, Germany and France?
 

patslatt

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Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
13,693
Not only that but Public Servants as opposed tp Civil Servants have ALWAYS paid for their pensions. Teachers, Gardai, nurses etc.always paid the 6.5% contribution and since the crash 15% on average.

But don't public servants want elimination of pension contributions?

A 6.5% contribution would be a drop in the bucket for gardai. 6.5% multiplied by 25 years service is a pension contribution of 1.6 years of average salary. After retirement in the early 50s age bracket, a garda's life expectancy to about age 80 would result in a pension worth about 14 years salary.
 

patslatt

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Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
13,693
All public sector workers recruited on or after April 1995 pay into their pensions. Get a life pat or at least get some facts
Most of the top half public sector workers have gold plated pensions which are not funded by contributions.
 

nakatomi

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Apr 10, 2010
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3,729
Clearly Pat there are difficulties recruiting for the public service, pay and conditions will have to improve, to make it more attractive.
 

johnnypockets

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Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
15,188
Any pay restoration we get won't get near to bringing us back to pre-cuts level. So you can get lost basically if you think any small amount of pay restoration should be off-set by increasing pension contributions - i.e. no pay restoration.
And rightly so. The levels during the bubble were unsustainable.
 

Uganda

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Joined
Aug 17, 2013
Messages
9,633
Not only that but Public Servants as opposed tp Civil Servants have ALWAYS paid for their pensions. Teachers, Gardai, nurses etc.always paid the 6.5% contribution and since the crash 15% on average.
So, if they pay 15%, who do you think pays the other 20%?
 

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