Public services card

Mad as Fish

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I might have missed this being discussed elsewhere on the boards but it seems that we are all to be assessed for a public services card.

Oh of course this isn't an identity card they explain, but we all know damn well it is. This is nothing more than another step in the surveillance state reducing us all to the level of supplicants to the state for permission to operate as individuals within this country.

Have we any idea left as to what liberty means, to be a free person and not a number on a database? Just who's life is it anyway?

I know we'll get the usual caterwauling from the insecure statists saying its all to our benefit etc but when we are obliged to register with the government and our image electronically recorded and ourselves numbered to be held on an insecure database then we have lost any claim to be free individuals and the state has become our master rather than our servant.
 


gijoe

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It has advantages though. I am being asked for ID everytime I take money out of my account so its handier than carrying a Passport around.
 

Sister Mercedes

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A handful of foreign corporations already have far more data on you than the government ever will. I'd have no objection to a mandatory ID card. Why do think Calais is chockablock with people trying to get to the UK ... because they need ID cards to work in France.
 

ne0ica

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Having lived abroad I found National ID cards to be of benefit.

When I lived in Asia in one country I got an Immigrant ID card.

If I needed to open a bank account, install broadband, mobile phone contract etc all I had to do was show them the ID card. Much less hassle than Ireland. No bank account statements, ESB bills needed etc.
 

tigerben

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We're already just a number. When your registered at birth your PPS number is sent out, you need it for school , doctors , hospital, exams and when you die they look for it. They say it cuts out fraud. I can't understand that. If your undocumented here , how do you get your child registration for school? How do you get social welfare . There never seems to be enough checks and balances and instead of reinforcing what's there , new " safety measures" cost more than saved are introduced . One day it will be a eye scan or finger print to get access to services. All done to prevent fraud they'll say !
 

Henry94.

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Hard to get worked up about it while carrying a device that tracks my movements and habits for the benefit of private companies.
 

Wascurito

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Having lived abroad I found National ID cards to be of benefit.

When I lived in Asia in one country I got an Immigrant ID card.

If I needed to open a bank account, install broadband, mobile phone contract etc all I had to do was show them the ID card. Much less hassle than Ireland. No bank account statements, ESB bills needed etc.
The Indians have done this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aadhaar

Considering the numbers, it was an extraordinary achievement.
 

Mad as Fish

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It has advantages though. I am being asked for ID everytime I take money out of my account so its handier than carrying a Passport around.
These incremental (or not so incremental in this case) erosion's of our liberty are always presented as advantages.
 

Wascurito

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Hard to get worked up about it while carrying a device that tracks my movements and habits for the benefit of private companies.
Away with you and your common sense. That won't stop the tinfoil hat brigade from having a field day.
 

Mad as Fish

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We're already just a number. When your registered at birth your PPS number is sent out, you need it for school , doctors , hospital, exams and when you die they look for it. They say it cuts out fraud. I can't understand that. If your undocumented here , how do you get your child registration for school? How do you get social welfare . There never seems to be enough checks and balances and instead of reinforcing what's there , new " safety measures" cost more than saved are introduced . One day it will be a eye scan or finger print to get access to services. All done to prevent fraud they'll say !
Just so, as I said where do we draw the line? This has stepped way over the line as far as I am concerned and I cannot but wonder what value people put on themselves to glibly accept becoming a tagged and ultimately controlled as part of a system rather than enjoying life as a free person. Humanity is far too easily conditioned, it was just this sort of thing the free West V. the doctrinal East was fought over in the Cold War and now people are mindlessly lapping it up!
 

Mad as Fish

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Hard to get worked up about it while carrying a device that tracks my movements and habits for the benefit of private companies.
I personally don't.

If you make that choice fair enough, but kindly do not impose it on the rest of us.
 

Windowshopper

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It has advantages though. I am being asked for ID everytime I take money out of my account so its handier than carrying a Passport around.
A pub I went to recently, I've being to don't accept them they only take driver's, age card or passport. I hadn't being ask for one in years but it was a really quite life and the bouncers were obviously bored out of their heads.
 
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Marina1962

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I was called twice for an appointment to get mine a few years ago. Told to bring passport, birth cert as I wasn't born in Ireland, and proof of address also as far as I remember.

I turned up and was told my PPS number ( one with a W at the end) would have to revert to my pre-marriage one of 30 years ago. I got a card back with the most awful photo ever and instructions to call to activate it. In addition I had to call Revenue re the new PPS number and to reissue a tax credit cert. Normally i din't mind doing stuff like this too much but my PPS was fine as it was!

I never called to activate the card and cut it up and binned it shortly after. I won't get a state pension until I'm 68 and probably won't ever need to claim JSB.

I'm not normally this curmudgeonly but the whole thing annoyed me.
 

Mad as Fish

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Away with you and your common sense. That won't stop the tinfoil hat brigade from having a field day.
From the OP -

I know we'll get the usual caterwauling from the insecure statists saying its all to our benefit etc

Didn't take you long.
 

Windowshopper

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Call me naïve but I don't think the PS card is because the government is being malevolent. ID cards make administration easier.

Here's a video on US social security became a quasi-ID and the problems when a card which wasn't supposed to be an ID is used as such.

The same problems are not present to the same extent with the public service cards because it has more ID features such as a photo.

[video=youtube;Erp8IAUouus]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erp8IAUouus[/video]
 

Mad as Fish

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Call me naïve but I don't think the PS card is because the government is being malevolent. ID cards make administration easier.

Here's a video on US social security became a quasi-ID and the problems when a card which wasn't supposed to be an ID is used as such.

The same problems are not present to the same extent with the public service cards because it has more ID features such as a photo.

[video=youtube;Erp8IAUouus]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erp8IAUouus[/video]
I didn't say the government is being malevolent, but it gives them tremendous scope to be so or otherwise exercise control in more subtle ways.

What happens if a Garda whistle blower finds his number switched off or his card suddenly becomes void? It might only be for a few days while it all gets 'sorted out' but the message has been sent and no doubt received.
 

Spanner Island

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If we had a record of the Irish 'state' doing stuff right I don't think I'd have an issue with it tbh...

Unfortunately there's such a litany of f*** ups and incompetence and cute hoorism at this stage that I just don't think it would be done right or that it wouldn't be abused by those with the data...

The only thing the Irish 'state' seems to excel at is taking money from us. Revenue generating parts of the state actually seem to work whereas the other stuff tends to suck.
 

Mad as Fish

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If we had a record of the Irish 'state' doing stuff right I don't think I'd have an issue with it tbh...

Unfortunately there's such a litany of f*** ups and incompetence and cute hoorism at this stage that I just don't think it would be done right or that it wouldn't be abused by those with the data...

The only thing the Irish 'state' seems to excel at is taking money from us. Revenue generating parts of the state actually seem to work whereas the other stuff tends to suck.
Totally agree, except that I think it is still utterly wrong in principle.
 

Spanner Island

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Hard to get worked up about it while carrying a device that tracks my movements and habits for the benefit of private companies.
That's a choice... and you can turn off Wifi and your data connection if you want to...

And if you really want to disappear 'off grid' so to speak you can turn off your phone altogether.
 


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