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Public vs Private...now Elderly vs Younger


Old Irish

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Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
1,515
Over the last few years there has been a lot of Public Sector bashing and the Public Sector defending themselves to the Private sector. We've all seen and heard numerous debates on this topic.

I was watching Primetime and I was a little bit uncomfortable with the direction of the debate regarding whether the older generation can give back and take more of a share of the losses incurred by the younger generation. I can see the older generations points regarding the amount of paye, prsi and mortgage interest rates they paid back in the day. How could you not understand their frustration regarding this debate? HOWEVER put those same people in the younger equivalent today and I wonder would they see it as fair.

The older person had job security with a large majority of jobs being unionized which brought with it many employee perks and benefits. His equivalent today is probably not in unionized employment and doesn't see the same perks and benefits that the older person did.

The older person had defined benefits pensions and the younger persons pension is practically non existent.
The older person probably paid 3,000 for their house and the younger equivalent paid 300,000.

The fact of the matter is this really. The older generation of politicians and bankers stole from the next generation and the younger people want some of it back but not in the way Primetime is suggesting but maybe in a multigenerational emergency fund if you will, to pay for the mistakes of the last generation.

That's my cut on it anyway.

Did you watch Primetime? and what are your views on this?
 


Andycap

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Feb 22, 2012
Messages
1,277
Didn't watch it but my parents generation benefited the most from the boom at the expense of mine.

Any of their generation who didn't were either bums or got way way too greedy.
 

Burnout

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Oct 7, 2009
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7,272
Twitter
I have a life.
No matter what battle is put up, private v public, old v young etc, it makes no real difference to the overall situation. The division is between those who have and those who have not. At this stage it is survival of the fittest.

I caught a piece of the PT last night and heard one panelist speak of the 'unmentionable' ie the cutting of social welfare. What worries me is that there are a lot of them out there and would if organised be a Force (capital F) to be reckoned with. The main job for them is survival and putting bread on the table. This goes for the architect as well as the brickie.

We are allowing the government to ruin this country again, financial first and now socially. The structure of our society as it stands now is changing so fast and the problems are so serious and growing that it will take decades to fix anything. We are standing by and watching the end of what was and entering a time of violence, depression and social breakdown. And no one is shouting stop.

On another point on PT the clip of David McWilliams in 2007 telling us what will happen in 2013 was scary. We are where we are God help us.
 

greengoose2

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Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
25,401
Didn't watch it but my parents generation benefited the most from the boom at the expense of mine.

Any of their generation who didn't were either bums or got way way too greedy.
Sonny, you got your fancy education, had your holidays, were lacking for nothing because your parents were robbing your future. Is that it? You got the benefit of everything your parents had, whether they worked their butts off for it or won the lotto or whatever. I suggest you get yourself a job and start paying your way.You can ruminate on why they did this disgraceful thing to you while you are sweating at your workplace...

Now I'm off to SKI.

Spend the
Kids
Inheritance

Ungrateful wasters.
 

devoutcapitalist

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Feb 26, 2013
Messages
16,580
the old age pension increased by over 125% between 1997 to 2009, that was nearly 3 times the rate of inflation for that period. The oap is another sacred cow that needs to be cut to €180 per week.
 

greengoose2

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Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
25,401
the old age pension increased by over 125% between 1997 to 2009, that was nearly 3 times the rate of inflation for that period. The oap is another sacred cow that needs to be cut to €180 per week.
You will of course give us some data on the various welfare increases and how much should be cut from each. There are some very sacred cows who never worked a day in their lives who enjoy the benefits of an entitlement to allowances they never earned!
 

Crazy horse 6

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Dec 15, 2011
Messages
13,515
RTE implementing the governments divide and conquer strategy. God darn those old people enjoying their retirement, how dare they.
 

dresden8

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Feb 5, 2009
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14,936
When ps workers point out the divide and conquer strategy we're accused of paranoia.

So, you're paranoid op.
 

Radix

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Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
10,031
You will of course give us some data on the various welfare increases and how much should be cut from each. There are some very sacred cows who never worked a day in their lives who enjoy the benefits of an entitlement to allowances they never earned!


Enda did work. Just not in the classroom for more than a couple of the thirty five years his pension credits him with...; )
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
50,439
EVERYBODY MAKE SURE TO TYPE WITH 'CAPS LOCK' ON; THERE MIGHT BE ELDERLY PEOPLE READING THIS AND WE NEED TO HELP THEM AS BEST WE CAN.

THANKS.

:p
 

bactrian

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Joined
May 11, 2004
Messages
1,232
Didn't watch it but my parents generation benefited the most from the boom at the expense of mine.

Any of their generation who didn't were either bums or got way way too greedy.
I am one of that " generation benefited the most from the boom at the expense of " Andycap's generation.

Strange but I seem to remember going through tough times myself, I recall paying 14% on my mortgage at one point, I remember being unable to find a job for a long time and having to contemplate emigration. The times in the recent past were not always easy.
 

paulp

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May 5, 2007
Messages
7,284
On another point on PT the clip of David McWilliams in 2007 telling us what will happen in 2013 was scary. We are where we are God help us.
Did you see the clip of David McWilliams on the Late Late show in 1999 predicting Armageddon for 2001?
David McWilliams has successfully predicted 5 of the last 1 recessions.
 

niall78

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Sep 10, 2010
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Another fake divide.

Who are we to hating today?
 
Last edited:

shiel

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Feb 14, 2011
Messages
16,986
A whole generation of ordinary people did not cause our present problems. The decisions of a very small number of very powerful people in control of taxpayer's and saver's money did.

All of these divide and conquer red herrings are, therefore, just deliberate distractions from the fact that a very small number of powerful people in government, banks building etc, with the endorsement and encouragement of most of the media, bankrupt the country.

Getting the gas chambers or the guillotines out for the oldies will not change that.

We need solutions to our present problems. Not witch hunts.
 

tigerben

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Sep 21, 2010
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4,620
FF had us all united against them and the greens , FG and Labour has us all divided along class lines, age lines, immigration , dolers, single mothers, home owners against council tenants in regards to taxing the home owner, PS against private workers and so on , amazing what 2.5 years in office can do.
 

Equinox

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Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
3,053
A whole generation of ordinary people did not cause our present problems. The decisions of a very small number of very powerful people in control of taxpayer's and saver's money did.

All of these divide and conquer red herrings are, therefore, just deliberate distractions from the fact that a very small number of powerful people in government, banks building etc, with the endorsement and encouragement of most of the media, bankrupt the country.

Getting the gas chambers or the guillotines out for the oldies will not change that.

We need solutions to our present problems. Not witch hunts.
Indeed, I'd say that not more then a couple of hundred people, bankers, developers and politicians did for us and now they are looking to squeeze the rest of us again.


If course the older generations are sitting pretty(er). Their mortgages are paid off, they are in reciept of pensions or are at the stage in their careers that they have reached the peak of their salary expectations and their cost of living is lower as they are no longer putting kids through school and university etc. Somehow RTE want to blame them for that?

There is a false economy to atacking the 50+ yr olds that was the nature of that debate. Much of the wealth in the hands of the older generations that McWilliams etc are talking about is mostly tied up in the value of their homes. Once the government have subtracted a third of that in death taxes, another third in their 'fair deal' scam to pay for nursing care as they grow older, and probably the rest in property taxes and medical care and medicine bills there will be nothing left to pass on to the next generation coming up, who will be once again robbed as they are denied the accumulated wealth, bought and paid for, of their parents generation.
Can't people see that this is just another means of robbing the current generations 'parental pension' so to speak?

Of course the government can start stripping the elderly of their assets, but they should be aware of the law of unintended consequences. How many grandparents, when their costs skyrocket, will have to withdraw the cash they were giving to their kids to meet bills and keep the car on the road or a roof over their head? You could see a major spike in reposessions as 'the parental dole/ digout' is withdrawn, and anybody that believes the money that the government cuts for the elderly is going to be pumped into the younger generations is just fooling themselves.
 

shiel

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Feb 14, 2011
Messages
16,986
FF had us all united against them and the greens , FG and Labour has us all divided along class lines, age lines, immigration , dolers, single mothers, home owners against council tenants in regards to taxing the home owner, PS against private workers and so on , amazing what 2.5 years in office can do.
Get the gas chambers or the guillotines out for the government?

Why did I not think of that?
 

WTTR

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Sep 25, 2009
Messages
5,304
Website
www.johnfhiggins.eu
Did you see the clip of David McWilliams on the Late Late show in 1999 predicting Armageddon for 2001?
David McWilliams has successfully predicted 5 of the last 1 recessions.
David was right. It was the same fear that was responsible for the Irish people to reject Nice 1. David did not give enough reasons for his predictions, only material and a reference to greed etc.

But the MSM took up his baton.

Some other people at the turn of the millenium tried to put more bones on their predictions and hinted that our politicians change social laws at the drop of a hat. They then behave in a way that is proof that they did not listen to the people that argued strongly against such social changes. However some people, that were not playing the popularity card, went out of their way to publish such predictions with more bones on it. The country and politicians proceeded without any Plan B or risk assessment on the future downside of changes in policy. Concerned people saw this and tried to jolt the powers that be, to make realistic risk assessments. This was done with great fear after house prices doubled between 1995 and 2000. You might have well have given guns to children such was the ignorance of how life fundamentals work.

The MSM completely ignored the source of the following even though knowledge of it was sent to press, radio and TV.

House prices in our built up areas are among the highest in Europe even though we have one of the lowest population densities. Land for building-on has become a scarce resource in modern day Ireland. Are we mad! We have one of the least population/land densities in the world. Are we really lacking the abilities to solve this scandalous situation? This is happening because money is diverted from having children.

We can now control our ability to procreate. But as a society we do not seem to realise the awesome power that we have suddenly being given; we have not developed any matching policies/ethics; * we are rudderless! We are as leaderless as children who have suddenly got their hands on guns and live ammunition; the consequences without some outside control or a sudden awakening are catastrophic! Not quick, but slow and much more damaging in the long-term.
 

irish_bob

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
7,562
Over the last few years there has been a lot of Public Sector bashing and the Public Sector defending themselves to the Private sector. We've all seen and heard numerous debates on this topic.

I was watching Primetime and I was a little bit uncomfortable with the direction of the debate regarding whether the older generation can give back and take more of a share of the losses incurred by the younger generation. I can see the older generations points regarding the amount of paye, prsi and mortgage interest rates they paid back in the day. How could you not understand their frustration regarding this debate? HOWEVER put those same people in the younger equivalent today and I wonder would they see it as fair.

The older person had job security with a large majority of jobs being unionized which brought with it many employee perks and benefits. His equivalent today is probably not in unionized employment and doesn't see the same perks and benefits that the older person did.

The older person had defined benefits pensions and the younger persons pension is practically non existent.
The older person probably paid 3,000 for their house and the younger equivalent paid 300,000.

The fact of the matter is this really. The older generation of politicians and bankers stole from the next generation and the younger people want some of it back but not in the way Primetime is suggesting but maybe in a multigenerational emergency fund if you will, to pay for the mistakes of the last generation.

That's my cut on it anyway.

Did you watch Primetime? and what are your views on this?

watched it last nite , everyone bar the American academic side stepped the argument for fear of offending the very powerfull grey voting bloc

the elderly are obscenely spoiled in this country but the young need to be far more clued in about this reality , four out of five times , a young person when asked if they support cuts to pensioners , will reply no
 

irish_bob

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
7,562
the old age pension increased by over 125% between 1997 to 2009, that was nearly 3 times the rate of inflation for that period. The oap is another sacred cow that needs to be cut to €180 per week.
closer to 200% , it was less than 90 pound in 1997

its also at the same rate it was at in 2009 , pensioners have had no cuts whatsoever bar token fuel allowance cuts during the summer months
 

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