Question for FG/FF supporters

riker1969

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Feb 11, 2008
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2,025
Dear party supporters
Do you mind telling me why anybody should vote for your parties based on the state of the health service?
You have been involved in every government in this state as the major party. Only once did you not have finance
I appreciate that the health service is still way better than it was before the Celtic tiger started .
I am a teacher so hardly qualified to work out what's wrong with the service overall but I am outraged by the following
Kids not getting speech therapy at a crucial time in their lives
Waiting lists bugger than the UK despite variance in population
Cancer patients getting worse treatment because of no insurance.
The same applies to those with arthritis who are often just given neurifin if they have no access to a consultant
I'm pretty certain most of my facts are spot on.
Why oh why should we give you four more years based on the above ??
 


wombat

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Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
34,645
Dear party supporters
Do you mind telling me why anybody should vote for your parties based on the state of the health service?
You have been involved in every government in this state as the major party. Only once did you not have finance
I appreciate that the health service is still way better than it was before the Celtic tiger started .
I am a teacher so hardly qualified to work out what's wrong with the service overall but I am outraged by the following
If the state of the health service is the only criterion, there is no party worth voting for. FG had a plan to introduce a universal insurance based scheme but found it was unaffordable. FF brought in the HSE to consolidate administration of health services, enough said. All of the parties have proposals for universal demand led access but they all intend using the magic money tree to finance them because being honest would mean telling people that their plans are unaffordable. The best we can hope for are incremental improvements by centralising more services between elections.
 

the secretary

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Joined
Jan 29, 2013
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6,347
Dear party supporters
Do you mind telling me why anybody should vote for your parties based on the state of the health service?
You have been involved in every government in this state as the major party. Only once did you not have finance
I appreciate that the health service is still way better than it was before the Celtic tiger started .
I am a teacher so hardly qualified to work out what's wrong with the service overall but I am outraged by the following
Kids not getting speech therapy at a crucial time in their lives
Waiting lists bugger than the UK despite variance in population
Cancer patients getting worse treatment because of no insurance.
The same applies to those with arthritis who are often just given neurifin if they have no access to a consultant
I'm pretty certain most of my facts are spot on.
Why oh why should we give you four more years based on the above ??
You are correct, the health service is an absolute shambles and needs drastic reform to deal with an aging population.
But you fail to acknowledge the excellent care that many patients get while in the system.
What health minister will do whats necessary???
So what's on offer from the others?
You know right well that no party will have the guts to take on the health unions as no party will get anywhere near an over all majority for some time.
Lab will be far too small, SF have an abysmal record in NI if you look at the state of the health service there and the Indos are far too fragmented.
 

Justa Thought

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May 9, 2019
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I am wondering if the large numbers of people that voted for FF in 2016 because of their promise to abolish Irish Water will be fooled by their promises in 2020.
 

Barroso

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5,622
If the state of the health service is the only criterion, there is no party worth voting for. FG had a plan to introduce a universal insurance based scheme but found it was unaffordable. FF brought in the HSE to consolidate administration of health services, enough said. All of the parties have proposals for universal demand led access but they all intend using the magic money tree to finance them because being honest would mean telling people that their plans are unaffordable. The best we can hope for are incremental improvements by centralising more services between elections.
What does this mean? ...found it was unaffordable...
This is the only country in Europe that doesn't have a national health service of one sort or another.
Albania can afford one, and so can Romania and Latvia.
Give us a break.

What they really found was that it might (just maybe) reduce doctors' incomes.
Everything about our health system revolves around that one thing: supporting doctors' incomes.

My opinion? Set up a national service paying good salaries (not exhorbitant) and limiting hours worked so that everyone working in the service has a good standard of living and proper work-life balance, and allow the greedy ones to set up in private practice. Completely private, with no hidden state supports.
 

riker1969

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Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
2,025
You are correct, the health service is an absolute shambles and needs drastic reform to deal with an aging population.
But you fail to acknowledge the excellent care that many patients get while in the system.
What health minister will do whats necessary???
So what's on offer from the others?
You know right well that no party will have the guts to take on the health unions as no party will get anywhere near an over all majority for some time.
Lab will be far too small, SF have an abysmal record in NI if you look at the state of the health service there and the Indos are far too fragmented.
You make very good points. It's true the health service treats many thousands successfully. It's also true that as medicine advances the HSE ends up doing more operations that were not even imagined ten years ago.
While the unions might be an issue so is political interference and the nature of Irish politics. Every TD wants a hospital in their county !
However I'm not convinced that returning FG will change anything much.I would never vote FF after the crash .
 

wombat

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34,645
Everything about our health system revolves around that one thing: supporting doctors' incomes.
Sometimes a simple solution is just simple minded
 

wombat

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While the unions might be an issue so is political interference and the nature of Irish politics. Every TD wants a hospital in their county !
However I'm not convinced that returning FG will change anything much.I would never vote FF after the crash .
One of the problems with hospitals is that they are not just for treating sick people but the employment they create is the equivalent of a decent sized factory in a town. Vincents or James may not be noticeable in Dublin but PortLaois certainly will be. I still think the best we can hope for will be incremental changes and I'm not convinced that changing minister makes much difference.
 

galteeman

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Nov 6, 2010
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Kids not getting speech therapy at a crucial time in their lives

I have experience of this as I waited ages to get speech therapy for my kid about 8 years ago.
After waiting for a few months getting no joy I decided to take care of it myself seeing as there was nobody else around. A lot of speech issues are mental not physical and I read that practice makes perfect so I purchased a therapy kit called Murphy Reader and did it with the kid every day for 20 minutes. Within a few months the kid eventually got over the main issues. About another year went by and we then got a letter from the HSE with a date to commence the treatment.
the treatment they offered was about half hour once a week. Laughable.
It reminds me of the time I wrote to South Dublin Council reporting a dangerous traffic light in Firhouse which looked green while it was actually red due to the angle of the sun.I kid you not, about 4 years later a guy rings me from the council traffic maintenance to say he had been given my letter and was now dealing with it.
Long ago I came to the conclusion it's best privatise anything and everything where practically possible. No private operation would survive long if it behaved like that.
 

jkc

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May 12, 2007
Messages
195
Ok, the health service has issues , however, there are a lot of other issues to take into account when deciding who to vote for. Health funding is huge and we need a good economy and high levels of employment to fund it. I will be voting FG as I feel they have done a good job there and hope we can give greater funding to health as the years go by.
 

riker1969

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Feb 11, 2008
Messages
2,025
Ok, the health service has issues , however, there are a lot of other issues to take into account when deciding who to vote for. Health funding is huge and we need a good economy and high levels of employment to fund it. I will be voting FG as I feel they have done a good job there and hope we can give greater funding to health as the years go by.
To be fair both big parties are pro business. Just FF were too pro builders . Though perhaps in current climate that's not so bad !
 

riker1969

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Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
2,025
Kids not getting speech therapy at a crucial time in their lives

I have experience of this as I waited ages to get speech therapy for my kid about 8 years ago.
After waiting for a few months getting no joy I decided to take care of it myself seeing as there was nobody else around. A lot of speech issues are mental not physical and I read that practice makes perfect so I purchased a therapy kit called Murphy Reader and did it with the kid every day for 20 minutes. Within a few months the kid eventually got over the main issues. About another year went by and we then got a letter from the HSE with a date to commence the treatment.
the treatment they offered was about half hour once a week. Laughable.
It reminds me of the time I wrote to South Dublin Council reporting a dangerous traffic light in Firhouse which looked green while it was actually red due to the angle of the sun.I kid you not, about 4 years later a guy rings me from the council traffic maintenance to say he had been given my letter and was now dealing with it.
Long ago I came to the conclusion it's best privatise anything and everything where practically possible. No private operation would survive long if it behaved like that.
I know from family experience that HSE language therapists are quite good. I hope you took half an hour because service could expand . You gradually get more.
As to your point about privatization I agree for minior things but look what happened in UK with water and trains. However there are different models of privatization. But I'd be wary of allowing them access to major social services.
 

GabhaDubh

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Ok, the health service has issues , however, there are a lot of other issues to take into account when deciding who to vote for. Health funding is huge and we need a good economy and high levels of employment to fund it. I will be voting FG as I feel they have done a good job there and hope we can give greater funding to health as the years go by.
But according to the Government our economy is the best in the EU, employment is dropping we are a picture of financial health. Monies are flowing so well we can exorbitantly overpay for new hospitals because of the abundance of funds.
 

wombat

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However there are different models of privatization. But I'd be wary of allowing them access to major social services.
Apart from health insurance, the Purchase Fund of which FF are especially fond is part privatisation of Health service.
 

riker1969

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Apart from health insurance, the Purchase Fund of which FF are especially fond is part privatisation of Health service.
To be fair there is an argument to be made that the private sector side of the health service works best. I think it's a bit like the education system. It's design of stand alone Catholic schools presents problems in a modern era . However these stand alone schools are cheaper to run than state schools and to disentangle the system and start again is too complicated. It's a shame FG/lab didn't use the opportunity of the crash to start it again.
 

wombat

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To be fair there is an argument to be made that the private sector side of the health service works best.
Horses for courses, there are procedures which can be done very well in specialised private clinics but for chronic ailments like kidney disease or pneumonia, only a state or charity system will work. In short, if its profitable, the private sector will do it but otherwise, its state.
 

Baron von Biffo

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Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
17,018
Dear party supporters
Do you mind telling me why anybody should vote for your parties based on the state of the health service?
You have been involved in every government in this state as the major party. Only once did you not have finance
I appreciate that the health service is still way better than it was before the Celtic tiger started .
I am a teacher so hardly qualified to work out what's wrong with the service overall but I am outraged by the following
Kids not getting speech therapy at a crucial time in their lives
Waiting lists bugger than the UK despite variance in population
Cancer patients getting worse treatment because of no insurance.
The same applies to those with arthritis who are often just given neurifin if they have no access to a consultant
I'm pretty certain most of my facts are spot on.
Why oh why should we give you four more years based on the above ??
We have two parties, three bits of parties and a plethora of cranks, misfits and mental defectives.

If we reject the two parties, to whom should we turn to form a stable government?
 

Baron von Biffo

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What does this mean? ...found it was unaffordable...
This is the only country in Europe that doesn't have a national health service of one sort or another.
Albania can afford one, and so can Romania and Latvia.
Give us a break.

What they really found was that it might (just maybe) reduce doctors' incomes.
Everything about our health system revolves around that one thing: supporting doctors' incomes.

My opinion? Set up a national service paying good salaries (not exhorbitant) and limiting hours worked so that everyone working in the service has a good standard of living and proper work-life balance, and allow the greedy ones to set up in private practice. Completely private, with no hidden state supports.
The glaring flaw in that nonsense is that if the raison d'etre of the health system is to support the income of doctors, why are we unable to fill so many posts at the top of the salary scale?
 


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