Questions about nature and evolution???

st333ve

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Nature can get very confusing when you think about it.
Is there anyone who can explain how this works..

For example a small green plant grows a seed that is strong enough to resist the acid in a birds stomache, it does this because the bird eats the berry and the seed inside is excreted over another part of land.
Now this is where it gets confusing, can anyone explain how a little green shoot with no eyes, nurves, ears or brain even knows what a bird is?
How does it know that it flies or its a bird thats eating its seeds?

Another one would be trees with thorns that are just long enough to scratch the underbelly of certain breeds of birds or animals, so they dont eat their seeds.Again, a tree has no way of telling what shape or size these animals are.

Is there a natural power that we cannot explain, i am aware of evolution but i am unaware of how nature communicates to itself and plants.
 


FrankSpeaks

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

st333ve said:
Nature can get very confusing when you think about it.
Is there anyone who can explain how this works..

For example a small green plant grows a seed that is strong enough to resist the acid in a birds stomache, it does this because the bird eats the berry and the seed inside is excreted over another part of land.
Now this is where it gets confusing, can anyone explain how a little green shoot with no eyes, nurves, ears or brain even knows what a bird is?
How does it know that it flies or its a bird thats eating its seeds?

Another one would be trees with thorns that are just long enough to scratch the underbelly of certain breeds of birds or animals, so they dont eat their seeds.Again, a tree has no way of telling what shape or size these animals are.

Is there a natural power that we cannot explain, i am aware of evolution but i am unaware of how nature communicates to itself and plants.
Is does not communicate, random changes in genes (evolution) over many generations bring about the desired result.
 

st333ve

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

Yes, but how does the plant know the seed in the birds stomache idea works?
It has no physical connection to the seed once its eaten.
There must be some kind of communication.
 

stringjack

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

st333ve said:
Yes, but how does the plant know the seed in the birds stomache idea works?
It has no physical connection to the seed once its eaten.
There must be some kind of communication.
The seeds of some members of the species are more resistant to acid than others. The less resistant seeds are damaged by the acid, and don't grow up to make seeds of their own. The resistant seeds survive the acid, grow and reproduce (passing on the resistance trait to their offspring). Over time, the only surviving plants are those with the resistance trait.
 

Liverpoolblue

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

It's all to do with DNA and the unconscious mind there's levels of functionality in humans that we are not usually conscious of and it's similar with nature. Consciousness influences reality.

Lb
 

FrankSpeaks

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

st333ve said:
Yes, but how does the plant know the seed in the birds stomache idea works?
It has no physical connection to the seed once its eaten.
There must be some kind of communication.
The original plant doesn't need to know because if the seed survives (evolution - survival of the fittest) and becomes the next generation then the genetic mutation that enabled survival will be passed onto succeeding generations.
 

st333ve

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

Hmm ok that makes sence i suppose, but i still reckon there's some kind of natural force at work.
Pagans believed in this theory.

Plants produce smells that they know will attract certain insects and animals, yet they dont have a nose to smell these scents, same kind of idea.
Some plants make amazing assumptions about animals in order to reproduce, i find it hard to believe that its just random luck and DNA,unless DNA contains memory information.
It must as many animals are born with survival knowledge.

Im sure there are more extreme examples of natural plants and animals having a knowledge of one another these are just the the ones ive just pulled off the top of my head.
 

FrankSpeaks

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

Liverpoolblue said:
It's all to do with DNA and the unconscious mind there's levels of functionality in humans that we are not usually conscious of and it's similar with nature. Consciousness influences reality.

Lb
Are you one of them creationist nutcases?
 

stringjack

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

st333ve said:
Plants produce smells that they know will attract certain insects and animals, yet they dont have a nose to smell these scents.
Some plants make amazing assumptions about animals in order to reproduce, i find it hard to believe that its just random luck.
Harder to believe than the claim that entities without a central nervous system have the ability to 'know' and 'assume' things?
 

st333ve

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

FrankSpeaks said:
Are you one of them creationist nutcases?
No, i was honestly just sitting here looking out the window bored thinking about random nonsence before i head off to work.
 

FrankSpeaks

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

st333ve said:
Hmm ok that makes sence i suppose, but i still reckon there's some kind of natural force at work.
Pagans believed in this theory.

Plants produce smells that they know will attract certain insects and animals, yet they dont have a nose to smell these scents.
Some plants make amazing assumptions about animals in order to reproduce, i find it hard to believe that its just random luck.

Im sure there are more extreme examples than the ones ive just pulled off the top of my head.
Smells work by the same principle, the plants that produce smells that insects like perform better in the survival stakes and become better at it in each succeeding generation. Its a bit like man domesticating animals breed the biggest, smallest, quietest or whatever trait that you are selecting and pretty soon you will have the product you desire. When man is in charge obviously the results comes about much faster than it would if nature were left to its own devices.
 

goosebump

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

st333ve said:
Plants produce smells that they know will attract certain insects and animals, yet they dont have a nose to smell these scents, same kind of idea.
Its co-incidence. The plants that don't attract the insects don't survive, so the only plants that are left are the ones that do, which gives the impression of intelligent design.

Species of flora and fauna come and go all the time. We just aren't aware of it.
 

FrankSpeaks

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

st333ve said:
FrankSpeaks said:
Are you one of them creationist nutcases?
No, i was honestly just sitting here looking out the window bored thinking about random nonsence before i head off to work.
I was asking Liverpoolblue the question!
 

The OD

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

st333ve said:
Yes, but how does the plant know the seed in the birds stomache idea works?
It has no physical connection to the seed once its eaten.
There must be some kind of communication.
You have to sit back and consider the absolutely huge timeframes at play here. Trial and error might seem hugely inffecient, but at the end of the say, thats basically how evolution works and work it does, it would appear. Success brings it own success in the natural world, if it works then it flourishes, if it doesnt, then look at the species which couldnt cut it and have disappeared.

Its hard to get your head around it at times, kind of like contemplating our place in a universe of such vastness. To say we are bacteria compared to the galaxy misses the metaphor by several orders of magnitude at the very least.

The theory of evolution isnt perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but its the only theory which is based on reason, logic and the scientific method. The naysayers who deny evolution actually look like they were created in one day indeed!
 

st333ve

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

That explains the survival of plants that 'got lucky' in choosing how they reproduce, yet its entirely possible that a new animal could be introduced to a habitat and attack a certain plant species....
After a certain period this plant will develop a security system against this animal without ever seeing or having any possible way of knowing what it is.
How does the plant know its being attacked?

:lol: Im starting to sound crazy i know but,If you were to pull a leaf off a plant that only live for one day and this plant reproduced everyday,over generations (1 day generations) would this plant rewrite its DNA over 'X' amount of years to prevent its leaf being pulled off?
And if so, doesnt this prove that the plant has some kind of knowledge about what is happening it and how?
 

FrankSpeaks

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

st333ve said:
That explains the survival of plants that 'got lucky' in choosing how they reproduce, yet its entirely possible that a new animal could be introduced to a habitat and attack a certain plant species....
After a certain period this plant will develop a security system against this animal without ever seeing or having any possible way of knowing what it is.
How does the plant know its being attacked?

:lol: Im starting to sound crazy i know but,If you were to pull a leaf off a plant that only live for one day and this plant reproduced everyday,over generations (1 day generations) would this plant rewrite its DNA over 'X' amount of years to prevent its leaf being pulled off?
And if so, doesnt this prove that the plant has some kind of knowledge about what is happening it and how?
I would think that this plant would evolve to live with the fact that its going to lose a leaf. If this plant has only one leaf then the species would die out.
 

QuizMaster

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

st333ve said:
Nature can get very confusing when you think about it.
Is there anyone who can explain how this works..

For example a small green plant grows a seed that is strong enough to resist the acid in a birds stomache, it does this because the bird eats the berry and the seed inside is excreted over another part of land.
Now this is where it gets confusing, can anyone explain how a little green shoot with no eyes, nurves, ears or brain even knows what a bird is?
How does it know that it flies or its a bird thats eating its seeds?

Another one would be trees with thorns that are just long enough to scratch the underbelly of certain breeds of birds or animals, so they dont eat their seeds.Again, a tree has no way of telling what shape or size these animals are.

Is there a natural power that we cannot explain, i am aware of evolution but i am unaware of how nature communicates to itself and plants.
In short, vast amounts of trial and error over vast periods of time.
Of course a plant doesn't decide to carry out experiments, it's just that some plants are a bit different, just by accident. If the different ones are, by pure chance, better able to survive then the "normal" ones, they have more babies and become the new "normal".
 

stringjack

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

st333ve said:
That explains the survival of plants that 'got lucky' in choosing how they reproduce, yet its entirely possible that a new animal could be introduced to a habitat and attack a certain plant species....
After a certain period this plant will develop a security system against this animal without ever seeing or having any possible way of knowing what it is.
How does the plant know its being attacked?
First of all, you've now become unclear as to whether you're talking about an individual plant or "the plant" as a species.

In any case, the plant doesn't know. It doesn't 'decide' to develop a security system - it has no brain - it doesn't think at all.

There is genetic diversity in any population of plants. Assume that some plants in the population are less vulnerable to attack than others (the 'security system' generally doesn't develop from nothing - it's an extension of something that was already present in the genetic pool of the species). The ones that are less vulnerable will be the ones that reproduce. In the next generation, then, all plants in the population will be less vulnerable than before. (Simplifying greatly.)

st333ve said:
:lol: Im starting to sound crazy i know but,If you were to pull a leaf off a plant that only live for one day and this plant reproduced everyday,over generations (1 day generations) would this plant rewrite its DNA over 'X' amount of years to prevent its leaf being pulled off?
And if so, doesnt this prove that the plant has some kind of knowledge about what is happening it and how?
It might; it might not. Suppose that a random mutation arises which makes it impossible for you to pull off the leaf. Suppose also that the plant with the extra leaf has more offspring than other plants. Over time, the proportion of resistant plants in the population will increase.
 

Fear Dorcha

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

st333ve said:
For example a small green plant grows a seed that is strong enough to resist the acid in a birds stomache, it does this because the bird eats the berry and the seed inside is excreted over another part of land.
Now this is where it gets confusing, can anyone explain how a little green shoot with no eyes, nurves, ears or brain even knows what a bird is?
How does it know that it flies or its a bird thats eating its seeds?
I think you got it the wrong way around. Is it not the bird that is being protected from the potentially harmful effects of the seed? After all the plant doesn't care how the seed is distributed, be it by wind, rainwater, sticking to an animal etc etc.
 

st333ve

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Re: Explaining nature and evolution???

Berries are specifically generated to taste good, and be used as food for certain animals, the seeds inside therefore are resilliant to stomache acid.
 


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