Questions on the Common Travel Area

SilverSpurs

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I am travelling to the UK as i often do. In all UK airports passengers from Ireland, IOM, Guernsey and Jersey bypass immigration with a boarding card and in Heathrow the random immigration checks are carried out by the London Met and not the UK Border agency. But in the opposite direction all passengers including domestic have to clear immigration.
So what happens if i just hand my boarding card to the GNIB official and demand to be let through in accordance with the current immigration act. Has anyone tried this before as i think i will give it a try even though i need my passport to fly Ryanair.
Why cant the clowns in Dublin Airport not segregate passengers who have arrived from the UK, IOM or Jersey and even the ones who have come from Cork!!! How difficult can it be???
 


Aindriu

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Under the terms of the cta checks are carried out at the departure port. All you need is valid photo ID. Ryanair are just being tits in demanding passports. Of course. We are incapable of having a channel for IOM & GB arrivals so have to show photo ID to the bored Garda in immigration here.
 

Boy M5

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Actually passengers on the Belfast Enterprise @ Connolly are segregated too walking past GNIB (ironic given James Connolly was living in Belfast in 1916) and when one flew from Farranfore or Cork to Dublin you used to have to pass thru GNIB (I guess it hasn't changed with the Santry pier) . Btw the cops @ LHR are recent and only there sometimes and reflect the dissident threat as they aint been there for 13 years) I presume they're also @ LGW STD (I know but more appropriate than the official. ICAO code given its operation, how many thousands of miles it iis from anywhere and its O'Ludicrous' biggest hub)
and Luton. In all cases they will be Special Branch. In STD's case they are Essex cops, in LGW's case sussex cops, in LTN's case Hertfordshire cops. Herts cops have had an armoured car type land rover outside that overgrown 1960's motorway service station for a few years. When the provo's were active it was always the provincial British cops who harrassed Irish passengers as that and spying on SWP types must have been their only excitement. Given the Jihadist threats I wonder if they've changed their stance?

The GNIB are ensuring no illegal immigrants are hitting Irish shores, though they must be very badly screwed if they are claiming asylum after McCreevy murdered the economy with his economic illiterate co travellers in the PD's.
 

Mister_Jinks

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I am travelling to the UK as i often do. In all UK airports passengers from Ireland, IOM, Guernsey and Jersey bypass immigration with a boarding card and in Heathrow the random immigration checks are carried out by the London Met and not the UK Border agency. But in the opposite direction all passengers including domestic have to clear immigration.
So what happens if i just hand my boarding card to the GNIB official and demand to be let through in accordance with the current immigration act. Has anyone tried this before as i think i will give it a try even though i need my passport to fly Ryanair.
Why cant the clowns in Dublin Airport not segregate passengers who have arrived from the UK, IOM or Jersey and even the ones who have come from Cork!!! How difficult can it be???
Technically, you'd be within your rights I suppose although carrying a passport isn't such a big deal for anyone these days. Most people have one. I would imagine.
 

Odyessus

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I am travelling to the UK as i often do. In all UK airports passengers from Ireland, IOM, Guernsey and Jersey bypass immigration with a boarding card and in Heathrow the random immigration checks are carried out by the London Met and not the UK Border agency. But in the opposite direction all passengers including domestic have to clear immigration.
So what happens if i just hand my boarding card to the GNIB official and demand to be let through in accordance with the current immigration act. Has anyone tried this before as i think i will give it a try even though i need my passport to fly Ryanair.
Why cant the clowns in Dublin Airport not segregate passengers who have arrived from the UK, IOM or Jersey and even the ones who have come from Cork!!! How difficult can it be???

You are mistaken if you believe that all passengers arriving in Ireland from the U.K. are entitled to be admitted.

You do not state your nationality, but if you are an Irish citizen you are certainly entitled to admission to Ireland, but would you kindly explain how an immigration official is supposed to know you are a citizen without seeing your passport?
 
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seabhcan

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I am travelling to the UK as i often do. In all UK airports passengers from Ireland, IOM, Guernsey and Jersey bypass immigration with a boarding card and in Heathrow the random immigration checks are carried out by the London Met and not the UK Border agency. But in the opposite direction all passengers including domestic have to clear immigration.
So what happens if i just hand my boarding card to the GNIB official and demand to be let through in accordance with the current immigration act. Has anyone tried this before as i think i will give it a try even though i need my passport to fly Ryanair.
Why cant the clowns in Dublin Airport not segregate passengers who have arrived from the UK, IOM or Jersey and even the ones who have come from Cork!!! How difficult can it be???
I got a question asked in the Dail about this a few years ago.

The official line is that the law guarantees that all UK and Irish citizens are allowed to enter the country from the UK without a passport. However, the Gardai have the right to demand that you prove that you are an Irish or UK citizen, and the only proof they are required to accept is a passport. They may let you into the country without a passport if they wish.

I tested this myself once and got in without a passport after a bit of agro from the irate garda.

There are a whole host of mad rules and laws to do with Ireland's immigration 'system'. For example, any non-UK or Irish citizen who crosses the border with Northern Ireland must, by law, present themselves to first garda station they encounter. Of course no-one does this.

Also, all airlines and ferries are exempt from carrier liability for bringing illegal immigrants from the UK to Ireland, meaning the state pays to deport people. This is unique, as those same carriers have to pay to deport illegals brought to Ireland from other countries.
 

corelli

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I am travelling to the UK as i often do. In all UK airports passengers from Ireland, IOM, Guernsey and Jersey bypass immigration with a boarding card and in Heathrow the random immigration checks are carried out by the London Met and not the UK Border agency. But in the opposite direction all passengers including domestic have to clear immigration.
So what happens if i just hand my boarding card to the GNIB official and demand to be let through in accordance with the current immigration act. Has anyone tried this before as i think i will give it a try even though i need my passport to fly Ryanair.
Why cant the clowns in Dublin Airport not segregate passengers who have arrived from the UK, IOM or Jersey and even the ones who have come from Cork!!! How difficult can it be???
Immigration Officers have a huge degree of discretion, under legislation. Being mannerly is probably your best bet! :) The guys in Dublin Airport are quite nice really. An Australian friend forgot his passport and arrived from Britain with just his driving licence (not flying ryanair), and after a 5 minute chat was let through.
 

seanmacc

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I got a question asked in the Dail about this a few years ago.

The official line is that the law guarantees that all UK and Irish citizens are allowed to enter the country from the UK without a passport. However, the Gardai have the right to demand that you prove that you are an Irish or UK citizen, and the only proof they are required to accept is a passport. They may let you into the country without a passport if they wish.

I tested this myself once and got in without a passport after a bit of agro from the irate garda.

There are a whole host of mad rules and laws to do with Ireland's immigration 'system'. For example, any non-UK or Irish citizen who crosses the border with Northern Ireland must, by law, present themselves to first garda station they encounter. Of course no-one does this.

Also, all airlines and ferries are exempt from carrier liability for bringing illegal immigrants from the UK to Ireland, meaning the state pays to deport people. This is unique, as those same carriers have to pay to deport illegals brought to Ireland from other countries.
I work for a ferry company and they are not exempt from liability for bringing in illegal immigrants. If the Gardaí can prove that those who entered illegally came off the companies vessels the company is liable for the cost to send them straight back. Ryanair are similarly liable as are Aerlingus which is why they both now require passports. Most f the refusals of entry into Ireland from airports are from people who do not require visas to enter Britain but do to enter Ireland (i.e citizens from India, Pakistan, Malaysia). The state does pay to deport those who entered via the border or from methods unknown.
 

seabhcan

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I work for a ferry company and they are not exempt from liability for bringing in illegal immigrants. If the Gardaí can prove that those who entered illegally came off the companies vessels the company is liable for the cost to send them straight back. Ryanair are similarly liable as are Aerlingus which is why they both now require passports. Most f the refusals of entry into Ireland from airports are from people who do not require visas to enter Britain but do to enter Ireland (i.e citizens from India, Pakistan, Malaysia). The state does pay to deport those who entered via the border or from methods unknown.
The immigration act specifically exempts carriers in the common travel area from liability. I think your company needs better lawyers.

Also, indians and pakistanis do need a visa for the UK, and Malaysian do not need a visa to come to Ireland.

You seem to be misinformed.
 

seanmacc

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The immigration act specifically exempts carriers in the common travel area from liability. I think your company needs better lawyers.

Also, indians and pakistanis do need a visa for the UK, and Malaysian do not need a visa to come to Ireland.

You seem to be misinformed.
It exempts carriers from liability provided that they check photo ID, the only ferry company to do this is DFDS (Norfolkline). Stenaline, Irish Ferries and P&O are generally happy with a verbal confirmation of your name. These companies are extremely unlikely to start checking IDs as it will deter a large proportion of their trade from the travelling community
 

seabhcan

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It exempts carriers from liability provided that they check photo ID, the only ferry company to do this is DFDS (Norfolkline). Stenaline, Irish Ferries and P&O are generally happy with a verbal confirmation of your name. These companies are extremely unlikely to start checking IDs as it will deter a large proportion of their trade from the travelling community
I don't see any requirement in the act to check "photo id" - it would be pointless in any case as generic photo id does not state nationality. More likely the ferry companies do this for their own internal security. Our only international train service - from Belfast - has no id check at all.

Seanmacc - you are talking nonsense.
 

seanmacc

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I don't see any requirement in the act to check "photo id" - it would be pointless in any case as generic photo id does not state nationality. More likely the ferry companies do this for their own internal security. Our only international train service - from Belfast - has no id check at all.

Seanmacc - you are talking nonsense.
Norfolkline check ID so as they don't have to pay for deportees. There are immigration checks on the trains also, altough they aren't as frequent as they should be and the rail companies do have to send them back.

I do have in my hand a Carrier Removal Direction form from the GNIB. The various legislation it refers to is on:

Immigration Act 2003, Section 5

(10) (a) This subsection applies where the identity of the carrier in whose vehicle a person to whom this section applies arrived in the State is known.


(b) An immigration officer or a member of the Garda Síochána may give a direction in writing in the prescribed form (or in a form to the like effect) to the carrier concerned to remove the person concerned, without delay, at no expense to the State, to a place referred to in subsection (5), and the carrier shall comply with any such direction.


(c) A direction under paragraph (b) may specify, at the option of the person giving the direction, that the carrier remove the person concerned by transporting him or her in a vehicle under his or her control or by arranging with another carrier for the removal of the person concerned.


(d) Where the carrier fails or is unable to comply without delay with a direction under paragraph (b), the immigration officer or member of the Garda Síochána concerned may make alternative arrangements for the removal of the person to a place referred to in subsection (5).


(e) Where alternative arrangements are made pursuant to paragraph (d), the costs incurred by the Minister in respect of the maintenance, detention or removal of the person concerned may be recovered from the carrier as a simple contract debt in any court of competent jurisdiction.
 

Schomberg

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I was under the impression that it was all down to planning ( or a lack of) in Cork and Dublin airports, creating a separate arrivals passage for UK arrivals. is that right?
 

jacko

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I was under the impression that it was all down to planning ( or a lack of) in Cork and Dublin airports, creating a separate arrivals passage for UK arrivals. is that right?
wonder what the story will be at T2 in Dublin.
 

fluffykontbiscuits

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I got a question asked in the Dail about this a few years ago.

The official line is that the law guarantees that all UK and Irish citizens are allowed to enter the country from the UK without a passport. However, the Gardai have the right to demand that you prove that you are an Irish or UK citizen, and the only proof they are required to accept is a passport. They may let you into the country without a passport if they wish.

I tested this myself once and got in without a passport after a bit of agro from the irate garda.

There are a whole host of mad rules and laws to do with Ireland's immigration 'system'. For example, any non-UK or Irish citizen who crosses the border with Northern Ireland must, by law, present themselves to first garda station they encounter. Of course no-one does this.

Also, all airlines and ferries are exempt from carrier liability for bringing illegal immigrants from the UK to Ireland, meaning the state pays to deport people. This is unique, as those same carriers have to pay to deport illegals brought to Ireland from other countries.
Very true, I came back from England and I showed my work ID . She asked me where I was travelling from so I said Edinburgh and she said I should have my passport next time ! I just smiled and thought, jesus she is bored out of her mind!
 

seanmacc

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Very true, I came back from England and I showed my work ID . She asked me where I was travelling from so I said Edinburgh and she said I should have my passport next time ! I just smiled and thought, jesus she is bored out of her mind!
There is no requirement for id or passport for immigration control within the common travel area once the immigration officer is satisfied that you are a Irish or UK citizen. In the Ports and Trains GNIB officers just ask your nationality.
 

fluffykontbiscuits

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There is no requirement for id or passport for immigration control within the common travel area once the immigration officer is satisfied that you are a Irish or UK citizen. In the Ports and Trains GNIB officers just ask your nationality.
You have to show your ID though coming back, I have every time?
 

Odyessus

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There is no requirement for id or passport for immigration control within the common travel area once the immigration officer is satisfied that you are a Irish or UK citizen. In the Ports and Trains GNIB officers just ask your nationality.

The Common Travel Area was adopted at a time when many people who wanted to travel between Britain and Ireland would not have had passports, and there were virtually no illegal immigrants travelling between these countries.

Neither of these things are true now. The vast majority of Irish people would be happy to carry their passports on trips to Britain if it meant a reduction in illegal immigration.

It is time for us to change an arrangement which has outlived its usefulness.
 


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