'Race science': the alt-right does 'data'

statsman

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A good, long, debunking of the notion of 'race science' in the Guardian today. Go read it:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/02/the-unwelcome-revival-of-race-science

A few highlights:

Although race science has been repeatedly debunked by scholarly research, in recent years it has made a comeback. Many of the keenest promoters of race science today are stars of the “alt-right”, who like to use pseudoscience to lend intellectual justification to ethno-nationalist politics. If you believe that poor people are poor because they are inherently less intelligent, then it is easy to leap to the conclusion that liberal remedies, such as affirmative action or foreign aid, are doomed to fail.
On dismissing poverty:

Another of Molyneux’s recent guests was the political scientist Charles Murray, who co-authored The Bell Curve. The book argued that poor people, and particularly poor black people, were inherently less intelligent than white or Asian people. When it was first published in 1994, it became a New York Times bestseller, but over the next few years it was picked to pieces by academic critics.
On the underlying concept:

Ultimately, race science depends on a third claim: that intelligence is highly heritable, and that different IQ averages between population groups have a genetic basis. If this case falls, the whole edifice – from Ashkenazi exceptionalism to the supposed inevitability of black poverty – collapses with it.
The politics:

Similarly, when Sam Harris, in his podcast interview with Charles Murray, pointed out the troubling fact that The Bell Curve was beloved by white supremacists and asked what the purpose of exploring race-based differences in intelligence was, Murray didn’t miss a beat. Its use, Murray said, came in countering policies, such as affirmative action in education and employment, based on the premise that “everybody is equal above the neck … whether it’s men or women or whether it’s ethnicities”
As I say, well worth a read.
 


eoghanacht

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This is like that part in Lord of the Rings, the bit where Merry knocks the dwarfs skeletal remains in to the well and off in the distance that unmistakable sound of knuckles dragging off the floor as the distant drum beat can be heard.

Of course those challenging the article are not racist...


Not my circus, not my monkeys.
 

nationalsday

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Are they still publishing under the title "The Guardian" - or was it not recently changed to the "Destroy All Men Sentinel"?

I might be wrong..
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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I'll never take SJWs seriously. Ever.

SJWs are just not very bright individuals and as a group, oh my, what fun.
 

statsman

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I'll never take SJWs seriously. Ever.

SJWs are just not very bright individuals and as a group, oh my, what fun.
Snowflakes who use the term SJWs can't be taken seriously.
 

talkingshop

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A good, long, debunking of the notion of 'race science' in the Guardian today. Go read it:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/02/the-unwelcome-revival-of-race-science

A few highlights:



On dismissing poverty:



On the underlying concept:



The politics:



As I say, well worth a read.
I read some good articles about this last year-

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/5/18/15655638/charles-murray-race-iq-sam-harris-science-free-speech

https://medium.com/@houstoneuler/the-cherry-picked-science-in-voxs-charles-murray-article-bd534a9c4476

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/6/15/15797120/race-black-white-iq-response-critics

I'm not sure the science on this is quite as settled as the Guardian writer makes out. I do agree with this guy, that it's not something that really needs to be discussed.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/07/race-iq-debate-serves-no-purpose/
 

silverharp

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is this the same guardian that tell Europeans to have less kids cos muh environment but should import more third worlders because europeans are having less kids.
 

ruserious

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It is idiotic to say that race can determine intelligence and poverty etc.

But perhaps culture can? And certain cultures can be associated with certain traits?

For example, a social-ethno itinerant group may have a culture that does not promote further education. And because of that, you get little social mobility within that social-ethno group. Not because of their race but the underlying culture.
 

statsman

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What, precisely, would we gain from discussing this particular issue?
Spurious justification for White Suprematists, for starters.
 

silverharp

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knock yourself out, its a good comic :cool:


Want to fight climate change? Have fewer children
https://www.google.ie/search?q=the+guardian+headline+have+less+kids&rlz=1C1RNPN_enIE395&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiAg6DDsM3ZAhWpC8AKHVYnASYQ_AUICigB&biw=1517&bih=777#imgrc=y9mEofTaU_zpXM:


then

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/09/germany-imf-economy-growth-refugees-migrants-labour-ageing-population

Refugees hold key to German economic growth, IMF says
Policies to integrate migrants into labour market will help counter effects of ageing population, organisation says
 

flavirostris

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That's what got James Watson, the molecular biologist and co-discoverer of the structure of DNA into so much trouble.

In a 2007 interview he said.

He says that he is "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours – whereas all the testing says not really", and I know that this "hot potato" is going to be difficult to address. His hope is that everyone is equal, but he counters that "people who have to deal with black employees find this not true". He says that you should not discriminate on the basis of colour, because "there are many people of colour who are very talented, but don't promote them when they haven't succeeded at the lower level". He writes that "there is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so".
Suddenly found himself persona non grata in the academic world and disinivited from speaking engagements.

UCC wanted to name some building after him but Dan Boyle of the Green Party kicked up a stink, complaining that it would be honouring racism.
 

Nermal

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I'm not sure the science on this is quite as settled as the Guardian writer makes out. I do agree with this guy, that it's not something that really needs to be discussed.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/07/race-iq-debate-serves-no-purpose/
A really bizarre article. The most perceptive line:

"As I have written often, educated Americans in particular now harbor nothing less than an anti-racist religion that will never accept such a mode of thinking as anything but antiquated and morally repulsive."

It's always worth questioning religion, and anyone who says otherwise is no scientist.
 

Cruimh

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This is like that part in Lord of the Rings, the bit where Merry knocks the dwarfs skeletal remains in to the well and off in the distance that unmistakable sound of knuckles dragging off the floor as the distant drum beat can be heard.

Of course those challenging the article are not racist...


Not my circus, not my monkeys.
But it cannot be denied that Orcs and Hobbits were dimmer than Elves ...... ;)
 

mr_anderson

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If anyone wishes to listen to his argument ...

[video=youtube;yClpuehBhC8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yClpuehBhC8[/video]
 

talkingshop

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Spurious justification for White Suprematists, for starters.
Yes.

The problem is, imo, that articles like the Guardian one don't help. They make overblown claims, they throw down a gauntlet in a way, insisting that this is all settled and any scientist who thinks otherwise is a "scientific racist", which leads to objections...and we end up doing exactly what Professor McWhorter suggested we don't do - talking about this. As he said, until all the data are in and we can draw definite conclusions, stop talking about it in mainstream media.
 

talkingshop

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A really bizarre article. The most perceptive line:

"As I have written often, educated Americans in particular now harbor nothing less than an anti-racist religion that will never accept such a mode of thinking as anything but antiquated and morally repulsive."

It's always worth questioning religion, and anyone who says otherwise is no scientist.
He is saying the data are not all in on this question, so there's nothing whatever to be gained from discussing it at the moment. I agree with that.
 


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