Racist, apartheid Israel?



ShoutingIsLeadership

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Fair enough. That's understandable, but included as useful background to my views in the issue of Israel generally. It's not entirely relevant to the topic at hand other than to demonstrate how this action has changed my view if Israel significantly.



Well yes, I think that's the important thing here. They don't care and, for the most part, they don't have to. Looking to international relations I think Israel has been slightly unfairly targeted in terms of undue focus on their actions while complete disregard for similar of worse behaviour elsewhere. I think this has a hand in developing the situation where something like this can happen. The isolation of Israel internationally (outside the US) leads to a situation whereby they're immune from the advice of a reasonable friend and intent on looking after themselves, and so taking every more drastic action in order to do it.

That's not to pass the blame, it rests almost entirely with the likes of Netanyahu, who has always been a fundamentalist, but it's taking Israel and Zionism to a zenith beyond what reasonable people could be comfortable with in respect to modern historical events, such as Apartheid.
Interesting. But as Spanner says, anything goes in the Trump/Putin world
 

PBP voter

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it might have been but they were never implemented unlike the apartheid regime enforced by your fellow loyalists in northern ireland
Takes me back. Remember when you were roaring drunk around the pubs in Temple Bar in 98 after the vote was passed? petunia The yanks thought you were crazy.
 

CookieMonster

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Interesting. But as Spanner says, anything goes in the Trump/Putin world
It is worrying. There seems to be example after example of the people distancing themselves from each-other being the at the forefront of politics, while the middle-ground is being shouted down.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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It is worrying. There seems to be example after example of the people distancing themselves from each-other being the at the forefront of politics, while the middle-ground is being shouted down.
Strong man politics, as Obama said. The world needs more female leaders and more non Alpha male leaders.

For the total clusterfúck that Brexit is, May has negotiated the process without any obvious displays of ego.
 

GDPR

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Well wasn't that exactly the point of Articles 2 and 3 in practice if not in intent ?
If that is why than why did Protestants remain a privileged minority in the Irish Free State? Could you imagine if they had acted out of Zionist Jewish values as opposed to Christian Gaelic ones?

Also how do you see yourself as being loyal to the Protestant people of Ulster by supporting the Christ hating as well as British hating and murdering Zionists?
 

former wesleyan

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it might have been but they were never implemented unlike the apartheid regime enforced by your fellow loyalists in northern ireland
And 41.1 ?
 

CookieMonster

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Strong man politics, as Obama said. The world needs more female leaders and more non Alpha male leaders.
Well, yeah. I mean I don't disagree. But I'm not sure it's primarily a gender thing. There are male leaders who aren't like that, Obama being the obvious example.

For the total clusterfúck that Brexit is, May has negotiated the process without any obvious displays of ego.
I don't know about that. She's not actually negotiated anything as far as I can see and her primary concern has been for her party, not her country. I think it's more ineptitude rater than lack of ego.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Well, yeah. I mean I don't disagree. But I'm not sure it's primarily a gender thing. There are male leaders who aren't like that, Obama being the obvious example.


I don't know about that. She's not actually negotiated anything as far as I can see and her primary concern has been for her party, not her country. I think it's more ineptitude rater than lack of ego.
I deliberately said fewer alpha males. Males aren't the problem, alpha males are.

I don't know. She has shut down a lot of the angry Brexiters, from a position of total weekness after the last GE. She is working with morons and a moronic opposition.
 

former wesleyan

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An analysis minus the hype.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/does-israel-need-a-jewish-nation-state-law/

The premise of the so-called Nationality Law is simple: It enshrines in Israel’s quasi-constitutional Basic Law that Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people. But after that it gets more complicated.

Other parts of the law, however, have raised the hackles of segments of Israeli society and the Jewish Diaspora. These include clauses relegating Arabic to a “special” status instead of an official language, promoting the establishment of Jewish communities throughout Israel and addressing the state’s relationship with Diaspora Jewry. That the words “democracy” and “equality” do not appear once in the text have sounded alarm bells among its critics.

The author of the original Nationality Law nearly a decade ago — Avraham Diskin, a political scientist and Hebrew University professor — rejects criticism of the legislation, which he calls “declarative” and “without a lot of practical” consequences.

Fuchs, who heads the Defending Democratic Values Program at the Israel Democracy Institute, said there is no need for the new legislation since it is clear that Israel is a Jewish nation-state based on its symbols, language and holidays, among other things.

He said he does not oppose the idea of a law stating that Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people, but that such a law should also ensure that the state will have equal rights for all its citizens.

But Fuchs does not believe that Israel will look substantially different after the passage of the legislation and disagrees with those who say it will turn the country into an apartheid state. The tipping point, he said, will be in close Supreme Court decisions, where the “Jewish” element could take precedence over the “democratic”element.
 

GDPR

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This lecture by a Jewish journalist who lives in Palestine actually goes over Zionist discourse in "Israeli" society. People should watch it before they comment on issues to do with Palestine (of course roc_, former weslyan et al know all this like the back of their hand and they love it, however they consider you lot to be freier and if you don't know that term you know extremely little about the situation).

[video=youtube;ew13LfxrTa8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew13LfxrTa8[/video]
 

roc_

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David Sheen. How many of his videos have you posted now. :roll:

You know, you're birds of a feather, you and Sheen.
 

RasherHash

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-44881554

Israel's parliament has passed into law a controversial bill that defines the country as an exclusively Jewish state.

The "Jewish nation state" bill downgrades Arabic as an official language and says advancing Jewish settlement is a national interest.

It also states that the "whole and united" Jerusalem is its capital.

Israeli Arab MPs condemned the legislation but Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu praised it as a "defining moment".

Thoughts?
These zionazis will be goosestepping down main street Tel Aviv soon and the yanks etc will still make excuses for them.
 

gleeful

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The Israeli perspective:

https://forward.com/opinion/israel/194963/why-recognizing-israel-as-jewish-state-is-key-to-p/

"... To accept the Jewish state is to create the minimal conditions for an end to the conflict. It is to signal to the Palestinian factions, divisions, functionaries and public, as well as the whole global pro-Palestinian machine, that the era of “resistance” is reaching its end.

Both sides know it, and always have. Indeed, since the very beginning of the Zionist enterprise, rejection of the “Jewish state” idea — whether Jewish in character, in purpose, religiously or demographically, or any other reasonable definition— has always been the real core of the problem.

It was the core of the problem when murderous Arab mobs began attacking unarmed Jewish civilians in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, culminating in the slaughter of the Jewish community in Hebron in 1929.

It was the core of the conflict when the Arab states rejected United Nations Resolution 181 in November 1947, calling for the partition of the land into an “Arab state” and a “Jewish state” — the latter expression appearing over 30 times — leading to the 1948 War of Independence, in which Arab states that didn’t even share a border with Israel felt a need to send their armies to kill the usurping Jews.

It was the core of the conflict when, in 1964 — three years before Israel occupied the West Bank — the Palestine Liberation Organization was founded, declaring the illegality of partition and of Israel itself, with the aim of “elimination of Zionism in Palestine” through “armed struggle.” Thus Yasser Arafat became the godfather of modern terrorism.

It was the core of the conflict when, in 1967, following the failed attempt to destroy Israel in the Six Day War, the Arab leaders issued the infamous “three No’s of Khartoum” — no peace, no recognition, no negotiations with Israel — and when, in 1974, Arafat announced in Cairo his “phased plan” to destroy Israel in stages.

It was the core of the problem when, after the 1993 Oslo Accords were supposed to bring a gradual path to peace, Arafat’s newly constituted Palestinian Authority continued to support and fund terrorist groups, preach hatred rather than peace in the classrooms, transform the refugee camps into armed compounds filled with improvised explosive devices and launch a horrific campaign of suicide bombings in the mid-1990s.

It was the core of the problem when, in the 2001 talks in Taba, Arafat rejected a peace plan from President Clinton that would have given the Palestinians a sovereign state on nearly all the land in the West Bank and Gaza, and instead launched the second intifada, causing thousands of pointless deaths on both sides.

It was the core of the problem when, in 2010, Benjamin Netanyahu called Mahmoud Abbas’s bluff and implemented the first-ever freeze in settlement construction for a period of 10 months. The result? Abbas waited until the freeze was almost expired before coming to the table — proving that the conflict was never really about settlements, after all.

And it is the core of the conflict today, when it appears Abbas has rejected every single proposal put forth by Secretary of State John Kerry that involves any recognition of the legitimacy of Israeli concerns — whether demographic, heritage or security.

Rejection of the Jewish state has always been the core of the conflict. It’s worth noting that those Arab leaders who made significant gestures toward ending rejection — like Egypt’s Anwar Sadat and Jordan’s King Hussein — were able to reach peace agreements with Israel in the blink of an eye. It was never Israel that stood in the way of peace.

Rejectionism is the problem, nothing else. Unless, of course, you believe that rejectionism is, in its essence, justified — that all the hatred, all the boycotts, all the violence against Israeli children and civilians, is all a “natural response” to the original sin of “occupation,” meaning of Israel itself. That 1948 justifies it all. If this is what you believe, then say so. But speak not of settlements, and do not pretend to have peaceful aims..."

Read more: https://forward.com/opinion/israel/194963/why-recognizing-israel-as-jewish-state-is-key-to-p/
What are the Palestinians supposed to do after they 'end resistance'? They can't emigrate. They can't develop their strip of desert or their swiss cheese state in the west. They are under military occupation. There is no possible hope for the future for them.

The conflict wont end. In 100 years the Israelis and the Palestinians will be exactly where they are now.
 

CookieMonster

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I deliberately said fewer alpha males. Males aren't the problem, alpha males are.
Perhaps I'm just over sensitive to the gender thing at the moment. I'm currently cleaning up a mess caused by a turf war between alpha females. Carnage the likes of which I've never seen before. Huge deep institutional cultural problems. EeeK!

I don't know. She has shut down a lot of the angry Brexiters, from a position of total weekness after the last GE. She is working with morons and a moronic opposition.
She's an weak leader capitulating to all and sundry. The hard-core europhobes are not numerous and not powerful, she didn't dismiss them early enough and that was because she was party-focused. Anyway, probably not the thread for this discussion.
 

Speedfreak

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What are the Palestinians supposed to do after they 'end resistance'? They can't emigrate. They can't develop their strip of desert or their swiss cheese state in the west. They are under military occupation. There is no possible hope for the future for them.

The conflict wont end. In 100 years the Israelis and the Palestinians will be exactly where they are now.
Poll: 77% of Arabs say won't replace Israel | Study conducted by Harvard University reveals Israeli Arabs would rather live in Jewish state than in any other country in world
 

former wesleyan

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The downgrading of Arabic is DUP-like in its mean- spiritedness.
 


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