Racist heroes of western civilisation

Volatire

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Messages
13,669
Racism is unacceptable to any sane, half-educated person today. It is largely the preserve of knuckle-dragging, low IQ misfits.

Yet it is an uncomfortable historical truth that many great thinkers (scientists, philosophers, politicians etc) who helped shape our Western values of freedom, scientific curiosity and openness, were racists.

What should be done with this information?

Should we purge our libraries and university courses of the works racists as the far left demand? Should we destroy monuments to racists and rename our streets? Or should we do nothing, accepting the highs and lows of Western history.

To see the implications of appeasing the hard "anti-fascist" left, we need a list of racists who shaped Western Culture. Only then can we judge the impact of erasing these figures from history.

Volatire will get the ball rolling.

Immanuel Kant

The yellow Indians do have a meagre talent. The Negroes are far below them, and at the lowest point are a part of the American people.
Arthur Schopenhauer

The highest civilization and culture, apart from the ancient Hindus and Egyptians, are found exclusively among the white races; and even with many dark peoples, the ruling caste, or race, is fairer in colour than the rest, and has, therefore, evidently immigrated, for example, the Brahmins, the Inca, and the rulers of the South Sea Islands. All this is due to the fact that necessity is the mother of invention, because those tribes that emigrated early to the north, and there gradually became white, had to develop all their intellectual powers, and invent and perfect all the arts in their struggle with need, want, and misery, which, in their many forms, were brought about by the climate. This they had to do in order to make up for the parsimony of nature, and out of it all came their high civilization
Charles Darwin

"At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races"
Voltaire

It is a serious question among them whether the Africans are descended from monkeys or whether the monkeys come from them. Our wise men have said that man was created in the image of God. Now here is a lovely image of the Divine Maker: a flat and black nose with little or hardly any intelligence. A time will doubtless come when these animals will know how to cultivate the land well, beautify their houses and gardens, and know the paths of the stars: one needs time for everything.
David Hume

“I am apt to suspect the negroes, and in general all the other species of men (for there are four or five different kinds) to be naturally inferior to the whites.
Friedrich Hegel

The peculiarly African character is difficult to comprehend, for the very reason that in reference to it, we must quite give up the principle which naturally accompanies all our ideas — the category of Universality. In Negro life the characteristic point is the fact that consciousness has not yet attained to the realization of any substantial objective existence — as for example, God, or Law — in which the interest of man’s volition is involved and in which he realizes his own being. This distinction between himself as an individual and the universality of his essential being, the African in the uniform, undeveloped oneness of his existence has not yet attained; so that the Knowledge of an absolute Being, an Other and a Higher than his individual self, is entirely wanting.
Hmm. That is already quite a hit.

Racists added:

Abraham Lincoln

Margaret Sanger

George Washington

Thomas Jefferson

Winston Churchill

Pope Pius IX

Richard Wagner

Karl Marx

Friedrich Engels

Woodrow Wilson

Henry Ford

Christopher Columbus

Captain Cook

Isaac Newton

James Connolly

Arthur Griffith

Horatio Nelson
 
Last edited:


Researchwill

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
4,716
Racism is unacceptable to any sane, half-educated person today. It is largely the preserve of knuckle-dragging, low IQ misfits.

Yet it is an uncomfortable historical truth that many great thinkers (scientists, philosophers, politicians etc) who helped shape our Western values of freedom, scientific curiosity and openness, were racists.

What should be done with this information?

Should we purge our libraries and university courses of the works racists as the far left demand? Should we destroy monuments to racists and rename our streets? Or should we do nothing, accepting the highs and lows of Western history.

To see the implications of appeasing the hard "anti-fascist" left, we need a list of racists who shaped Western Culture. Only then can we judge the impact of erasing these figures from history.

Volatire will get the ball rolling.

Immanuel Kant



Arthur Schopenhauer



Charles Darwin



Voltaire



John Hume



Friedrich Hegel



Hmm. That is already quite a hit.
Many people today and in the past who are great in one way or another have racist views. So? Many people alive today who are considered great will in the future in light of what happens be held to hold what then will be shocking views, this is reality. Greatness does not mean always right.
 

ruman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
3,408
Muhammed Ali -


‘Integration is wrong,’ he insisted, ‘we don’t want to live with the white man. I’m sure no intelligent white person in his or her right mind wants black men and women marrying their white sons and daughters and in return introducing their grandchildren to half brown, kinky haired people. I want to be with my own. No women on this whole earth can please me and cook for me and socialise and talk to me like an American black woman. You can’t take no Chinese man and give him no Puerto Rican woman and talking like they’re in love and emotionally in love and physically.’

 

Volatire

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Messages
13,669
Not a good fit, even aside from the piss poor misinterpretation of that quote. Darwin was an abolitionist, heavily influenced by his grandfather Erasmus Darwin.
I am a huge Darwin fan, but am not going deny his racism.

You only has to read his views on the Fuegian "savages" in Voyage of the Beagle. No doubt his words contributed to the extermination of the Yamana people.
 

silverharp

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
16,676
Abe Lincoln

Lincoln, Speech at Ottawa

I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is physical difference between the two which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position.
 

Trainwreck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
26,416
Many people today and in the past who are great in one way or another have racist views. So? Many people alive today who are considered great will in the future in light of what happens be held to hold what then will be shocking views, this is reality. Greatness does not mean always right.
I think he is pondering the growing movement to expunge the memory of such people, by removing statues and busts, renaming building or bridges etc.
 

Trainwreck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
26,416
Racism is unacceptable to any sane, half-educated person today. It is largely the preserve of knuckle-dragging, low IQ misfits.

Yet it is an uncomfortable historical truth that many great thinkers (scientists, philosophers, politicians etc) who helped shape our Western values of freedom, scientific curiosity and openness, were racists.

What should be done with this information?

Should we purge our libraries and university courses of the works racists as the far left demand? Should we destroy monuments to racists and rename our streets? Or should we do nothing, accepting the highs and lows of Western history.

To see the implications of appeasing the hard "anti-fascist" left, we need a list of racists who shaped Western Culture. Only then can we judge the impact of erasing these figures from history.

Volatire will get the ball rolling.

Immanuel Kant



Arthur Schopenhauer



Charles Darwin



Voltaire



John Hume



Friedrich Hegel



Hmm. That is already quite a hit.


Mohammed. Mohammed was a great slave master.
 

TedHankey

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2014
Messages
1,056
Racism is unacceptable to any sane, half-educated person today. It is largely the preserve of knuckle-dragging, low IQ misfits.

Yet it is an uncomfortable historical truth that many great thinkers (scientists, philosophers, politicians etc) who helped shape our Western values of freedom, scientific curiosity and openness, were racists.

What should be done with this information?

Should we purge our libraries and university courses of the works racists as the far left demand? Should we destroy monuments to racists and rename our streets? Or should we do nothing, accepting the highs and lows of Western history.

To see the implications of appeasing the hard "anti-fascist" left, we need a list of racists who shaped Western Culture. Only then can we judge the impact of erasing these figures from history.

Volatire will get the ball rolling.

Immanuel Kant



Arthur Schopenhauer



Charles Darwin



Voltaire



John Hume



Friedrich Hegel



Hmm. That is already quite a hit.
I'm ok with either way (remembering or forgetting) as long as it's not biased or unfair and doesn't create a hierarchy of victimhood. If we can try to understand some of the bigots then we should try to understand the Nazi Germans. If the latter type of bigotry is just wrong and unacceptable then why not treat all other bigotry the same?
 

firefly123

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
28,478
Statues of Darwin or Kant or feckin Ali are not put up to lord over a section of the population like many of the post civil war statues were.
They werent put up to make the croppy lie down. To remind the emancipated slaves that they were still under the boot.
I don't want these statues destroyed. I want them in a museum with context and information.
 
Last edited:

Trainwreck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
26,416
I don't want these statues destroyed. I want them in a museum with context and information.

If only there was some universal system where people, especially young people, could learn with proper context and information, about the history of events that shaped their present day world and helped explain the evidence of those events that surround them.


Hmmmmm, if only such a thing existed...



But maybe your* idea is the better one. Why, we could remove any and all dangerous and potentially offensive objects and place them in museums, so people could only view them with "proper context and information" attached.






*I also follow that Twitter feed. You might want to alert readers when you simply lift other people's published opinions verbatum.
 
Last edited:

Betson

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
17,351
Statues of Darwin or isn't or feckin Ali are not put up to lord over a section of the population like many of the post civil war statues were.
They weren't there to make the drippy lie down. To remind the emancipated slaves that they were still under the boot.
I don't want these statues destroyed. I want them in a museum with context and information.
The Margaret Sanger one is in a museum(the Smithsonian) , the issue is that it is housed in the Hall of Hero's section beside MLK etc , a group of black clergymen tried to get it removed from that section a year or so ago because of her extreme racist views(even for the times she lived in) , they said they did not want it destroyed or anything just moved from that section. But they were refused because she is now a liberal hero with the racist part of her story whitewashed out.
 

JJames2

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
84
it is an uncomfortable historical truth that many great thinkers (scientists, philosophers, politicians etc) who helped shape our Western values of freedom, scientific curiosity and openness, were racists.
I don't think its racist to believe there are profound differences (both intellectually and physically) between the various races of mankind.
 

ruman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
3,408
Statues of Darwin or isn't or feckin Ali are not put up to lord over a section of the population like many of the post civil war statues were.
They weren't there to make the drippy lie down. To remind the emancipated slaves that they were still under the boot.
I don't want these statues destroyed. I want them in a museum with context and information.
Could we set up a Ministry of Truth to oversee statue removal ?
 

Trainwreck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
26,416
I don't think its racist to believe there are profound differences (both intellectually and physically) between the various races of mankind.
That won't stop you being called racist for saying so, even if supported by demonstrable (NBA for example), or scientific (pity Charles Murray) evidence.
 

McTell

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
7,272
Twitter
No
Thomas Jefferson - kept his slaves in his basement and had kids with at least one of them

G Washington - can we rename DC please?

Charles Carroll - the only catholic to sign the decl of ind in 1776 - slave owner

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Carroll_of_Carrollton

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doughoregan_Manor


Many statues of Andrew Jackson who owned over 100 slaves, had a lot of indians moved out of their homes and didn't like the meskins ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_memorials_to_Andrew_Jackson

even up in antrim... :p

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson_Centre


Fidel Castro.. the list is endless
 

ruman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
3,408
Thomas Jefferson - kept his slaves in his basement and had kids with at least one of them

G Washington - can we rename DC please?

Charles Carroll - the only catholic to sign the decl of ind in 1776 - slave owner

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Carroll_of_Carrollton

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doughoregan_Manor


Many statues of Andrew Jackson who owned over 100 slaves, had a lot of indians moved out of their homes and didn't like the meskins ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_memorials_to_Andrew_Jackson

even up in antrim... :p

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson_Centre


Fidel Castro.. the list is endless
Could have been worse at least they ended up in the USA, as Ali put it -

"Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat"
 


New Threads

Most Replies

Top