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Radicalism in the Irish Community in Scotland - Podcast


cb1979

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Near Podcasts » The History Show Episode Nine

On this episode of the Irish History Show on Near FM we talk to Alex O'Fhailghigh about Irish radicalism in Scotland. Covering such topics as Irish immigration in the wake of the 1798 Rebellion; the Chartists; their role in Labour movement and Trade Unionism; the IRB; the Land League in Scotland and up to James Connolly.

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cb1979

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That is a really interesting 'cast - thank you for sharing it. Both the Scottish section - interesting that the Irish dominated Docking in both Glasgow and Edinburgh - and the section on Historiography
Thanks Cruimh. It's a fascinating history and one I think a lot of people in Ireland would be unaware of.
 

Riadach

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Riadach

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O' Ay - Lee believe it or not :)
That just confused me more. The fact he puts a séimhiú after the ó is also highly unusual. I would have thought al-yig or al-yee for pronunciation. Does he have much Irish?
 

cb1979

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I'd really have to get him on to give a full explanation but I remember him saying to me that it is the Irish version of Farley and the correct pronunciation is O' Ay - Lee but most people say O' Fay - Lee and he doesn't correct them.
 

DuineEile

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I'm curious too. It is a combination of letters that Irish doesn't usually pronounce. Usually when you get a word like this, Irish simplifies it so you are not left with a tongue twister.

D
 

Dasayev

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That just confused me more. The fact he puts a séimhiú after the ó is also highly unusual. I would have thought al-yig or al-yee for pronunciation. Does he have much Irish?
It's unusual but not unprecedented. The surname Lynn is derived from Ó Fhloinn for instance. I guess adding the séimhiú is an Ulster thing.
 

Riadach

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It's unusual but not unprecedented. The surname Lynn is derived from Ó Fhloinn for instance. I guess adding the séimhiú is an Ulster thing.
I've also come across Ó Mhóra in Mayo. I don't think it can be consigned to one dialect. I think it may just be a conflation of the genitive mutations.
 

JohnD66

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Any thoughts on the contents of the podcast?
I can't speak to how it originated with the Defenders but I think he's spot on with the 'radical yet conservative' nature of what we call grassroots republicanism in rural Ireland - radical in attitude to confronting the state (and yes on occasion the Protestants) but conservative in the sense of not challenging the mores and structures of its own community.

As to how it influenced the Irish in Scotland, again I'm no expert on that at all but interesting stuff all the same.
 

Brenny

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I can't speak to how it originated with the Defenders but I think he's spot on with the 'radical yet conservative' nature of what we call grassroots republicanism in rural Ireland - radical in attitude to confronting the state (and yes on occasion the Protestants) but conservative in the sense of not challenging the mores and structures of its own community.

As to how it influenced the Irish in Scotland, again I'm no expert on that at all but interesting stuff all the same.
He pointed out the flaws in Connolly's history but at the same time he can't stop himself from repeating the same mistake of trying to establish an unbroken lineage between the 18th century agrarian groups and the syndicalism of the 1890s-20th century (in fairness to him he admits he can't prove it but feels that it is the case). Apart from that I quite liked the interview. I liked Padraig Lenihan's talk with yourself as well, his take on revisionism is very interesting.
 

Dasayev

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I've also come across Ó Mhóra in Mayo. I don't think it can be consigned to one dialect. I think it may just be a conflation of the genitive mutations.
Another unusual one is Ó an Cháintighe - which is the Cork name Canty. So there does seem to be few "Ó" irregulars hiding around the country.
 

Riadach

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Another unusual one is Ó an Cháintighe - which is the Cork name Canty. So there does seem to be few "Ó" irregulars hiding around the country.
That would be to do with the 'an' not the Ó. There was a famous bardic poet called Fearfasa Ó'n Cháinte. That must be the same name. The Cáinte itself was a fairly interesting figure in Gaelic society.
 

cb1979

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It is very annoying reading history publications that refuse to use a fada when writing about people and organisations that have a fada in their name. Fianna Fáil becomes Fianna Fail, Sinn Féin become Sinn Fein etc. I was reading the Sunday Independent at the weekend and there wasn't one fada in the entire newspaper.
Now I know that's not quite as bad as refusing to use a fada in an academic history book but I wonder what your (Riadach and Dasayev) opinions are. Has anyone raised it with them? Ed Moloney's book The Secret History of the IRA was particularly bad as there was numerous mentions of Ruairi O Bradaigh and Daithi O Conaill. I don't think it is pedantic to expect the names to be spelled correctly.
 

Cruimh

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It is very annoying reading history publications that refuse to use a fada when writing about people and organisations that have a fada in their name. Fianna Fáil becomes Fianna Fail, Sinn Féin become Sinn Fein etc. I was reading the Sunday Independent at the weekend and there wasn't one fada in the entire newspaper.
Now I know that's not quite as bad as refusing to use a fada in an academic history book but I wonder what your (Riadach and Dasayev) opinions are. Has anyone raised it with them? Ed Moloney's book The Secret History of the IRA was particularly bad as there was numerous mentions of Ruairi O Bradaigh and Daithi O Conaill. I don't it is pedantic to expect the names to be spelled correctly.
I asked before - on another thread - about the use of the fada in Éire

http://www.politics.ie/forum/northern-ireland/208917-northerners-who-call-south-free-state.html#post6624763

http://www.politics.ie/forum/northern-ireland/208917-northerners-who-call-south-free-state.html#post6624839

It seems very variable indeed.
 

Dasayev

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That would be to do with the 'an' not the Ó. There was a famous bardic poet called Fearfasa Ó'n Cháinte. That must be the same name. The Cáinte itself was a fairly interesting figure in Gaelic society.
Yes but the Ó + an is extremely rare, if not unique to this surname, is my point. While Mac + an is quite common. Similarly, Ó causing lenition is very rare, but Mac causing lenition is quite common. Ó Fhailghigh makes you look twice, but Mac Fhibín doesn't, for example.

Ó seems to be less flexible than Mac in surnames is my point.
 

cb1979

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You're absolutely right Cruimh and that's very interesting about the use of the fada in Éire in your posts. I think these days when people are using computers it is as easy to hold down the 'Alt Gr' while hitting a vowel to produce the correct spelling as not.
 

JohnD66

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Personally I find the fada kind of irritating - if only because it sometimes crashes the wordpress blog format!

(Ducks)
 

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