Random phone calls to benefit claimants ..

robut

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Plans for unemployed to claim benefits using phones - The Irish Times - Fri, Nov 19, 2010

"UNEMPLOYED PEOPLE may be allowed to “sign on” using their mobile phones to lessen the burden on civil servants.

Jobseeker benefit claimants will receive random phone calls on their mobile phones asking them to sign on. The calls will be automated and will ask claimants to confirm security details and their status.

The mobile phone signing-on will operate by voice recognition. "

".. random phone calls were “not an unfair imposition” for those in receipt of welfare payments and that it would be a better system to catch out welfare fraudsters than the present system where claimants sign on by appointment."

I am not sure from reading this how it will "catch out welfare fraudsters"?

I have never signed on - not using it as a gloat point - I am self employed so I cannot.

From reading above it seems to say you get a call, it recognises your voice and then you sign on over the phone wherever you are electronically?

Maybe I am reading this wrong?

Robut
 


brigg

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I actually just read about this in the Examiner, and came on here to see if there was a thread about it. The Examiner's article appears to explain it a little better.
Welfare claimants must initially visit dole offices where voices will be recorded for verification purposes.

Mr O Cuív explained: "It will be voice recognition. There’ll be questions asked and if the voice doesn’t match, the line will switch off and you’ll get a text to tell you to come in immediately. If you don’t answer the phone after three times, you get a text to come in.

Read more: Mobile voice checks to catch out welfare cheats | Irish Examiner
Im a little dubious as to how effective this will be. It assumes that everyone has access to a working mobile phone. What happens if you are in a location with poor or broken reception? Some networks are notorious for dropping calls etc. Does the department even have the manpower to process this? How effective is the voice recognition technology? :confused:
 

anewbeginning

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Does it mean the welfare tourists will no longer have to come from Eastern Europe to sign on? The roaming charges will be a small price to pay.
 

vanla sighs

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Jesus, they talk about tackling welfare fraud and then this.......Someone in eastern Europe could simply have the call redirected to them. Stupid idea.
 

robut

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Can someone explain how signing on works currently?

Are you allotted a time to turn up at the exchange to sign on and collect a cheque?

Does this new system mean you get a call and you need to turn up within a set few hours?

Robut
 

realistic1

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Plans for unemployed to claim benefits using phones - The Irish Times - Fri, Nov 19, 2010

"UNEMPLOYED PEOPLE may be allowed to “sign on” using their mobile phones to lessen the burden on civil servants.

Jobseeker benefit claimants will receive random phone calls on their mobile phones asking them to sign on. The calls will be automated and will ask claimants to confirm security details and their status.

The mobile phone signing-on will operate by voice recognition. "

".. random phone calls were “not an unfair imposition” for those in receipt of welfare payments and that it would be a better system to catch out welfare fraudsters than the present system where claimants sign on by appointment."

I am not sure from reading this how it will "catch out welfare fraudsters"?

I have never signed on - not using it as a gloat point - I am self employed so I cannot.

From reading above it seems to say you get a call, it recognises your voice and then you sign on over the phone wherever you are electronically?

Maybe I am reading this wrong?

Robut
This is another Fianna Fail scam that will probably cost millions and no doubt some software company with connections to Fianna Fail will receive the contract. What happens if you dont have a mobile phone? if your mobiles batterry is dead? If you lose your mobile and cannot afford a new one because you are on unemployment benefit? Is it also another loss of civil liberty??
 

gijoe

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Where does it say in the law that a social welfare claimant MUST have a mobile phone, or have to give the number to Social Welfare? Will the Dept be providing one? There is one gap in this proposal that I can see.
 

brigg

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Can someone explain how signing on works currently?

Are you allotted a time to turn up at the exchange to sign on and collect a cheque?

Does this new system mean you get a call and you need to turn up within a set few hours?

Robut
Money is usually collected from the post office on a weekly basis, but claimants have to occasionally sign-on at welfare offices. How frequently this occurs varies from place to place.
This system appears to be an attempt to replace the signing-on process, probably due to the massive workload and queues at welfare offices. According to O'Cuiv, a claimant will only be asked to come to the welfare office if they fail to answer the automated call, or it fails to recognise their voice.
 

gijoe

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Can someone explain how signing on works currently?

Are you allotted a time to turn up at the exchange to sign on and collect a cheque?

Does this new system mean you get a call and you need to turn up within a set few hours?

Robut
You generally have to turn up on a set day every 4 weeks, like every 4th Tuesday, during a set time range such as 9.30-12am.

Payment can be either by direct debit or in person at your local Post Office on a certain day of the week and you must collect it within 3 days i.e. if your nominated day is a Wednesday you must collect it by Friday or else it goes back to Social Welfare.
 

robut

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Thanks guys,

Then it would seem this phone call thing will be another expensive Software catastrophe?

The article says - "The mobile phone signing-on will operate by voice recognition. A trial will begin in the new year."

Is the software already written / bought / paid for?

Its more to do with the Social Welfare office workload as opposed to "catching out welfare fraudsters". GIJOE mentions:

"Payment can be either by direct debit or in person at your local Post Office on a certain day of the week and you must collect it within 3 days"

So you are in the North or the UK or Poland, you get the call, you answer. So hop on a ryan air flight or drive or train or bus within the 3 days ... sorted?

Am I getting this right?
Robut
 

Mousey

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Really, it would be much more efficient just to tag them with those electronic bracelet things. Then you could watch them move about on screen and tell if they were leaving the country. I mean, I've lost count of the times I've lost my phone or had it stolen - this will never work.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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Voice recognition security measures are not much different than finger printing or DNA identification.
This proposal is ludicrous and has so many holes and simple work arounds.
'Lessen' the burden on civil servants seems to be the key point here.
 

truthflyer

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Thanks guys,

Then it would seem this phone call thing will be another expensive Software catastrophe?

The article says - "The mobile phone signing-on will operate by voice recognition. A trial will begin in the new year."

Is the software already written / bought / paid for?

Its more to do with the Social Welfare office workload as opposed to "catching out welfare fraudsters". GIJOE mentions:

"Payment can be either by direct debit or in person at your local Post Office on a certain day of the week and you must collect it within 3 days"

So you are in the North or the UK or Poland, you get the call, you answer. So hop on a ryan air flight or drive or train or bus within the 3 days ... sorted?

Am I getting this right?
Robut
It's more to do with the Public sector workers making sure thay can set on their arseses even more than they do now
 

Mousey

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I imagine their software would capture your location along with verifying your identity when you answer the call.
 

Hogwash

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Maybe the Department will provide the mobile phones free of charge! Another stupid idea - ppars, electronic voting, etc etc
 

chriskavo

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It won't really matter in the long run as social welfare as we know it will be a thing of the past since the IMF came in.
 

Tired

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This will make no difference to fraud prosecution in Ireland but fraud harder to catch. It will make no difference to fraud prosecution from outside the country as the person is outside jurisdiction anyway.

In the past summary prosecutions were taken on 6 sample charges. The first, the claiment singing on and the declaration to notify of any change in circumstance. The next 5 were taken from the intermediate signatures, each also with a declaration.

Then it became only the first charge from the Social Welfare consolidation act. Basically all that is required is the original claim form in which the claiment agrees to notify a change in circumstance. So, their income, a partners income, if a dependent is no longer dependent, if they leave the country....

This does not mean a person has to refund the money, that would need to be a civil case. The social welfare pursues refunds seperately. If the person is in the country.

So basically if the social welfare catches them and they don't live in Ireland there is nothing they can do to prosecute or seek a refund of the money, but why make it easier to commit fraud? It makes no sense to me.
 

Mousey

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Well, even if they couldn't recover money paid out, I guess at least they'd stop payments, which would be something. Presumably they think there are many people who live in other countries claiming benefits here.

There are many reasons why I don't think this is desirable, or will be effective, but I don't understand how you see it making fraud easier to commit?
 

vanla sighs

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Well, even if they couldn't recover money paid out, I guess at least they'd stop payments, which would be something. Presumably they think there are many people who live in other countries claiming benefits here.

There are many reasons why I don't think this is desirable, or will be effective, but I don't understand how you see it making fraud easier to commit?
You don't see how it makes fraud easier to commit? :confused: It's very simple, Mr.A is on the dole, he leaves Ireland and goes to live in Latvia, the UK or wherever else. He has roaming setup on his mobile or has calls redirected to him (think that's also an option) DSW phone him "allo, allo? Marek speaking.....show me da money, show me da money!" Simple. It makes it easier to commit fraud.
 

Luigi Vampa

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The article says - "The mobile phone signing-on will operate by voice recognition. A trial will begin in the new year."

Is the software already written / bought / paid for?
I wonder what FF cronies suggested the contract and then won it ?
 


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