Rank and File Catholics Deeply Hurt By Dublin Diocese Report

FortyCoats

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As a follower of the Church, I have to say that I am in no way looking forward to the publication of the Dublin Diocese Report into child abuse. In fact, I am quite sickened by it. I'm sure every single one of my comrades feels the same. At this point in time, the most important thing is that the report is published which will enable those victims to get recompense in a stream-lined manner, whilst ensuring that high-grade evidence against those criminals responsible for inflicting evil is available.

The clergy are tasked with a gruelling job of cutting out the cancer and finding the resources to compensate victims, whilst at the same time getting on with all their other responsibilities within the Church. This is not an easy time and all stakeholders in the process need support, encouragement and above all, prayer. There are some desperate cases that need attention and some very tough decisions will need to be made.

I hope that the victims will find some comfort in the publication of this report and that they can find it in their hearts to forgive those people responsible for inflicting great evil on them. Some may remain scarred and bitter till the day they die - some are already dead - some are so anxious and upset that they can't bring themselves to relive the horrors they went through. It's these people my thoughts and prayers are with.
 


Captain Con O'Sullivan

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The only reason that it is has taken so long for all this to come to light is because the catholic churh and its plantation slaves in the Irish Civil Service have been fighting tooth and nail to suppress the information.

'Forgiveness' the OP mentions. The only people who were 'forgiven' were the paedophiles and sadists within the church who were routinely offered 'forgiveness' by the church and never reported to the authorities. And then released to another parish to commit the same crimes they'd committed before.
 

leroy42

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While your thoughts and prayers may be well intentioned towards those that suffered from the inhumane cruelty and abuse from the church is it not revealing that your opening paragraphs deals with the hurt you and others in the church feel, what a struggle it will be to deal with the aftermath and how the church can move forward and only then turns to the abused!

The main remorse that the church feels about this report is that it is being publiushed at all. The church tried to cover all this up for so long, was that because of a feeling or remorse for the victims???

Stop feeling sorry for yourself and all those involved in the church. It is time for those (and I accept that it is the vast, vast majority) involved in the church who had no dealings in this to stand up and demand action from Rome. Demand defrockings(is that the term?), the church should be leading the criminal charges against the prients etc, offering free legal advice, barristers etc.

If Rome would do it's duty (moral if not legal, and what is the church without morals?) then those good and honourable servants of the church should refuse to continue to do it's work, a strike if you will. This continuing acknowlegement of wrongdoing without any real action comes across of cynical and cowardly. God does not belong to the chruch, if Rome won't do the right thing lets start again without them and focus and the good work that can be done in the name of Jesus, I don't need some pedo apologist, morally corrupt man in white robes to tell me how to pray.
 

truthflyer

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It should come as no surprise! Let you children no where near a priest
 

Toland

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It should come as no surprise! Let you children no where near a priest
The first sentence at least, is very, very true. I think it's instructive that some are keeping eyes dry until the report is out. They already know roughly what's in it. Everybody does.

Why cry only at the report's publication?

My explanation is that their tears relate more to the media Tsunami that's about to hit their beloved Church than to the suffering of its victims.
 

Mar Tweedy

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It should come as no surprise! Let you children no where near a priest
Agree with AS on the first part of your sentence. I'm not sure what you mean by the second half of the sentence whether you mean to keep kids away from the priests to protect them from organised religion or from abuse. If its the latter, its quite unfair as the majority of priests are not abusers and it would not serve any child as a protection strategy as the majority of the huge amount of sexual abuse is not committed by priests.

The Catholic Church has behaved in the most disgusting depraved fashion in ensuring that more children would be abused by not dealing with the abusers and it is right that they feel the full force of the result of their actions.

However my fear is that kids who are going through the horrors today, are being missed by the concentration on Church members' abuse. Families are the site of most abuse. What do we do about that?
 

Andrew49

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AndrewSB49
THE spectacle of Cardinal Desmond Connell rushing to the High Court to muzzle Archbishop Diarmuid Martin's open policy of co-operation with the State inquiry into the Dublin Archdiocese was the most serious breach of the rock-solid outward unity normally displayed by members of the Irish Hierarchy.

No Secrets
 

edor

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Not as deeply hurt as were the children assaulted and raped by rank and file catholic priests. Many of whom many never recover from the trauma. Your rank and file catholics have buried their heads in the sand for long enough thanks.
 

Mar Tweedy

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I think non-clerical child abuse is a topic for another thread (and perhaps even another occasion).
Sure. Not trying to distract from the issue of the Dublin report - just most abuse is 'non-clerical'.

As for the OP, I think no matter how unsurprised many of us feel by the CC's actions being motivated by the vilest motives humanly possible, seeing the reality in black and white is always shocking and it sounds like the Dublin report is going to be very shocking.

Sometimes I wish I believed in hell to know that those senior members of hierarchy who hold responsibility for the rape and attacks of our most vulnerable members of society will burn for eternity for what they have done. It is an attractive image considering what has been done and allowed to be done by them and I hope they at least think there are chances that that will happen to them and cause them some sleepless nights. Unfortunately I don't hold much hope that they have the level of understanding and humility to question themselves along those lines. Hence the likes of Connell trying to use the law of the land, which he paid no regard to when it came to the abuse of children, to protect himself.
 

Mitsui

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I have very mixed feelings about this.

The victims are of course the no. 1 priority, as they should have been (but most decidedly weren't) all along. In fact if it weren't for all the publicity and the public outrage I very much doubt that the State would have pushed things this far even now.

The church hierarchy and the lay clerics who slavishly defend the hierarchy's obfuscation and denial deserve every drop of loathing that they will receive. They have sowed the wind: let them reap the whirlwind.

But I have to apprecate that there are many Catholics whose trust in all this has been almost as abused as the trust of the victims. No-one could ever mistake me for a defender of the RC church, but still I do feel for those people, members of that church, many of them elderly, many of them now having had a lifetime's faith ripped to shreds by the revelation that those they trusted and respected were either outright criminals or the organised defenders of criminals, which amounts to the same thing as they were certainly accessories after the fact to abominable crimes.

We go ballistic when we find our taxes have been used to fund the luxury lifestyles of politicians. I can't imagine how some of my Cathlolic friends and relatives felt when they found their Church contributions had been used to defend or make payouts on behalf of child molesters. In fact I don't have to imagine it, since I've heard it from some of them. I know all the arguments about how they should have known better. In many cases I agree. But hurt is still hurt, and betrayal is still betrayal.

I can't say I agree with you 100%, FortyCoats. But we're probably more in agreement on this than we're likely to be on any other matter I can think of. My deepest sympathies have to lie with those who were not only abused but who were often vilified and terrorised when they tried to report the fact that they'd been abused; but I pity all of those who've had their faith & trust betrayed, whether by monsters or by the accomplices of monsters.
 

Aindriu

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Ah cmon now. Be fair. Only 1 in 20 priests is likely to try to bugger your child so chances are, they'd be perfectly safe.
1 in 200 would be too great a number. I would rather not take the risk at all.
 

Toland

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A decent-sized part of me is a little less sympathetic than Mitsui.

After all, this pile of steaming entrails has been on public view for long enough now.

Rank and file catholics need to get over it now and cease being rank and file catholics.

If they don't want to go over to the side of the godless (which I could understand, given what a smug and self-righteous lot some of us, including me, can often seem), you'd expect them to at least be initiating an Irish reformation of sorts.

It should be sufficiently clear now that their feelings don't count for much until they start voting with their feet and pocketbooks.

This belief in some magical exemption for the Catholic Church from the otherwise universal laws about what happens in autocratic and secretive organisation is just too childish in the light of the events of the last few years.

In fact, it was too childish for adults for any adult during the whole of the 20th century.
 

macdarawhitfield

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1 in 200 would be too great a number. I would rather not take the risk at all.
But most sex abuse happens within families.Most infanticide happens there for that matter.Only a tiny fraction of these cases involve strangers ,clerical or secular.Trouble is ,there is no axe grinding loddy out to get the family or the local authority.In the UK,of course,they pin all the blame on the totally innocent social workers.We could start a thread about 'secular child abuse'.It would last about 25 minutes.
 

TradCat

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I'm a rank and file Catholic and I don't feel any sense of hurt whatsoever.The people who were hurt were the victims and the people who hurt them or covered up were criminals.

It's looks like Archbishop Martin is trying to do the right thing. But it's such an obvious right thing that there is no excuse whatsoever for his predecessors failing to do it. My parents were advised by a senior nun in the late sixties never to let us become Altar Boys. She clearly knew what was going on 40 years ago. If she knew most of them knew. But nothing was done.

The Church as an institution deserves every thing that is coming to it and more. It should sell everything it owns and give the money to the victims. It should come clean about the record.

We can hope that when it is battered and humiliated and broke that it will re-discover what it was supposed to be doing in the first place. If you are a Catholic who is shocked and appalled by the facts then your main obligation is to not get in the way of justice. Don't let them hide behind you.
 
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MichaelR

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I would suggest that for ALL parties concerned, including devoted Catholics, it would be better if all criminals went to jail.

Not only all who did the deed, but also all who covered it up. Any bishop who knew about any such thing and did not get the offender jailedshould be jailed himself. For any criminals, including those who covered things up, found to be outside the juristiction of Ireland, file extradition requests.

If this were to happen, devout Catholics would know that any of their leaders remaining in place are not just safe for the kids but also have clear consciences.

If any offenders (including those who covered up) well and truly repent, I understand the Church may not want to defrock them, but they should still be jailed. They could serve as priests while in jail.
 

TradCat

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But most sex abuse happens within families.Most infanticide happens there for that matter.Only a tiny fraction of these cases involve strangers ,clerical or secular.Trouble is ,there is no axe grinding loddy out to get the family or the local authority.In the UK,of course,they pin all the blame on the totally innocent social workers.We could start a thread about 'secular child abuse'.It would last about 25 minutes.
The abuse damns the abusers. The cover-up that damns the institution.
 
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Toland

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Trouble is ,there is no axe grinding loddy out to get the family or the local authority.
This may sound like Gerry Adams mixing up historical explanation with ethical justification*, but why do you think there's an axe-grinding lobby out to get the Catholic Church.

Do you think the axe-grinding lobby appeared out of a vacuum?

Are you of the opinion that it's the result of a masonic plot?

Is it the media? And if so, why are they so evil?

What's your theory?

Why are so many people grinding axes for your beloved Church?

Simply the inscrutable work of the Devil?




* not that there is any suggestion that axe grinding against the CC is any way in need of ethical justification.
 
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