Rape - how important is your underwear


Emily Davison

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Apparently wearing lacy underwear means that you are looking for sex:

Counsel for man acquitted of rape suggested jurors should reflect on underwear worn by teen complainant | Irish Examiner


So ladies, if you ever get raped because you're dressed up, don't bother going to court if you wore lacy undergarments as it will be used against you.

Nice underwear is a sign of being sexual available apparently.

"Does the evidence out-rule the possibility that she was attracted to the defendant and was open to meeting someone and being with someone? You have to look at the way she was dressed. She was wearing a thong with a lace front.”
 

Fritzbox

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Apparently wearing lacy underwear means that you are looking for sex:

Counsel for man acquitted of rape suggested jurors should reflect on underwear worn by teen complainant | Irish Examiner


So ladies, if you ever get raped because you're dressed up, don't bother going to court if you wore lacy undergarments as it will be used against you.

Nice underwear is a sign of being sexual available apparently.

"Does the evidence out-rule the possibility that she was attracted to the defendant and was open to meeting someone and being with someone? You have to look at the way she was dressed. She was wearing a thong with a lace front.”
It was said by a woman (I presume).
 

Emily Davison

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Yes it was said by a woman, the defending barrister.
 

locke

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The other things is that even if she was looking for sex, it doesn't mean she was looking for sex with him, so looking for sex in itself shouldn't imply consent.
 

Fritzbox

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The other things is that even if she was looking for sex, it doesn't mean she was looking for sex with him, so looking for sex in itself shouldn't imply consent.
But she did (or was about to) have sex with him.
 

locke

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But she did (or was about to) have sex with him.
There's nothing to suggest that other than the words of the defendant

On the other hand

“A witness saw you with your hand to her throat.”
 

Fritzbox

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There's nothing to suggest that other than the words of the defendant

On the other hand

“A witness saw you with your hand to her throat.”
So? He was found innocent by unanimous decision of a 12-member jury - four of whom were women.
 

Levellers

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To paraphrase George Bernard Shaw "Put a woman on the spit and you can always get another woman to turn her."
 
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Apparently Elizabeth O’Connell has a history of defending suspected rapists and victim blaming is completely standard for her.
 

Fritzbox

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Enough reasonable doubt was generated that a not guilty verdict was returned.

Juries don't find people innocent.
Sure I can accept that - that's ultimately the case. We have to accept the court's final decision as well.
 

Erudite Caveman

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I've no reason to dispute the jury's findings, so the defendant isn't the issue.

His counsel is a piece of work though. Despicable.
 

Emily Davison

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Apparently Elizabeth O’Connell has a history of defending suspected rapists and victim blaming is completely standard for her.
She absolutely has to defend her client. There's no question of that.

Whether she should have used that particular point about the underwear is what the thread is about.
 

Dame_Enda

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There is no excuse for rape. But equally people should takemeasures to reduce the chances of becoming a victim. I do think dress is a relevant issue. There are a lot of young women that walk around town at night like they are professional strippers. I have no interest in women as I am LGBT, but I think when you dress like that, you are clearly looking to hook up with a man (or in a minority cases with a woman). Now that doesnt justify rape, but it does perhaps explain why some men may get the wrong idea.

At the same time, I think that unless the underwear is being worne without anything over it, how that looks is not necessarily something that should matter to a judge.
 
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PAGE61

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Bizarre...

From this day forth I will not wear women's underwear .

On a serious note, How can this be even entertained in a courtroom .Rape is rape
 

locke

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There is no excuse for rape. But equally people should takemeasures to reduce the chances of becoming a victim. I do think dress is a relevant issue. There are a lot of young women that walk around town at night like they are professional strippers. I have no interest in women as I am LGBT, but I think when you dress like that, you are clearly looking to hook up with a man (or in a minority cases with a woman). Now that doesnt justify rape, but it does perhaps explain why some men may get the wrong idea.
We only really know about her underwear and I believe the reason for wearing thongs is more to do with avoiding lines on dresses/skirts/trousers than trying to appear sexy. And while they were lacy at the front, I don't think they make thongs that are like granny pants at the front.

I still return to my earlier point. Even if a woman is out looking for a hook-up, it doesn't mean she doesn't get choice about who it is with.

A nice point I saw made about consent before was that if you put a straight man in a gay bar, he would quickly become an expert on consent.
 

Paddyc

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There is no excuse for rape. But equally people should takemeasures to reduce the chances of becoming a victim. I do think dress is a relevant issue. There are a lot of young women that walk around town at night like they are professional strippers. I have no interest in women as I am LGBT, but I think when you dress like that, you are clearly looking to hook up with a man (or in a minority cases with a woman). Now that doesnt justify rape, but it does perhaps explain why some men may get the wrong idea.
Sorry but that is bulls**t.

Women dress for each other as much for any man. Just because a woman is dressed in a way that suggests potential availability does not mean that the rules of consent go out the window.

Men "getting the wrong idea" is also bulls**t as one question ("are you okay with this?") settles the matter conclusively.

I have a daughter and sons. I will be telling my sons that they should be in absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the woman (or man) is consenting at every stage of the sexual encounter and if they aren't absolutely in no doubt whatsoever, to ask.

I will be telling my daughter to dress as she sees fit, but to let men know clearly and unequivocally that she is not interested and that they should stop now.

I don't blame the barrister, her job is to do everything within the law to secure an acquittal for her client. If this line of questioning has worked for her in the past and hasn't been ruled out by the Court, she is obliged to use it again.

I blame the Judge who thought this was an appropriate line of questioning.
 

GDPR

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The truth is this BS wouldn't fly if people were not already predisposed to believe it.
 

Dame_Enda

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Sorry but that is bulls**t.

Women dress for each other as much for any man. Just because a woman is dressed in a way that suggests potential availability does not mean that the rules of consent go out the window.

Men "getting the wrong idea" is also bulls**t as one question ("are you okay with this?") settles the matter conclusively.

I have a daughter and sons. I will be telling my sons that they should be in absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the woman (or man) is consenting at every stage of the sexual encounter and if they aren't absolutely in no doubt whatsoever, to ask.

I will be telling my daughter to dress as she sees fit, but to let men know clearly and unequivocally that she is not interested and that they should stop now.

I don't blame the barrister, her job is to do everything within the law to secure an acquittal for her client. If this line of questioning has worked for her in the past and hasn't been ruled out by the Court, she is obliged to use it again.

I blame the Judge who thought this was an appropriate line of questioning.
I've edited to clarify that underwear shouldnt be an issue unless its being worne without anything over it.

I absolutely agree that men and women should be as sure as its possible to be, and otherwise should touch someone sexually. But I dont agree that the target of the attention does not have a responsibility to be as clear as possible that the answer is no.
 

Emily Davison

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There is no excuse for rape. But equally people should takemeasures to reduce the chances of becoming a victim. I do think dress is a relevant issue. There are a lot of young women that walk around town at night like they are professional strippers. I have no interest in women as I am LGBT, but I think when you dress like that, you are clearly looking to hook up with a man (or in a minority cases with a woman). Now that doesnt justify rape, but it does perhaps explain why some men may get the wrong idea.
So Dame, women should wear Burka's and they won't be raped?

Do you think that strippers expect to be raped?

If a woman dresses up in a short skirt and wishes to meet a young man that means because of her clothing that she is inviting rape?
 
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