Re-thinking Asylum


Felixness

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The asylum claims by Pakistanis are particularly ridiculous. They're getting student visas for England and when those expire they're arriving here via Northern Ireland, of course a big pull initially was these language schools which thankfully seem to mostly be going out of business. There should be no question of Afghans or Pakistanis or Nigerians being allowed to claim asylum. We should have a system where all claims are processed from start to finish within 6 months, where claimants have to have their clothing with them when they have their hearing and if a claim is rejected they are detained and deported the same day.
 

Dr Pat

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Ah shure, that's only auld Phil - he has form as a bootboy for Enda. He wouldn't be talking up the 'disaster' of the speeded-up demise of the EU and his nice cushy job, now would he?

If the Calais thugs and chancers arrive here, it will speed up the establishment of a party advocating a proper system of immigration control whose polities the populists in FF and FG will promptly adopt. We badly need a UKIP-style party south of the border.
 

Dame_Enda

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On 26 April the Austrian parliament passed 'tough' new asylum laws, establishing the government's power to close Austria's borders to many (possibly all; it's a bit unclear) asylum seekers during an influx 'emergency'.
Migrant crisis: Austria passes controversial new asylum law - BBC News

Outraged MEPs in the euro parliament seem to be focussing their opposition on the possibility of Austria building a fence around the Brenner pass entry point (from Italy) in anticipation of this summer's arrivals from Libya.
MEPs urge Juncker to stand against Austria border fence – EurActiv.com
The Socialist group is saying this. Enlargement has given the EP a semi permanent Centre Right majority, but Socialist Martin Schulz was crowned EP president because of businesses as usual stitch ups between the EPP and the SD group. The EPP and ALDE (Liberal) group have a majority between them but the EP is centre Right if you include the Eurosceptic groups like ECR and EFD.
 

cunnyfunt

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Yesterday was an historic day for the EU- the first mass return of 'refugees' from the EU to a (hastily declared) 'safe' but unattractive country (Turkey) which has contracted a treaty with the EU to accept them, oiled along with inducements for the State of Turkey. The 202 returned had declined to make claims for asylum. 130 were from Pakistan, and others from Iraq, Iran, Morocco and other countries. Another 2800 asylum seekers have remained on Lesbos in order to pursue their claim individually through whatever process the Greek authorities can set up for such vast numbers (1 million last year).
Migrants returned to Turkey from Greece under EU deal - BBC News

In compensation the first selected Syrian refugees have been flown to Germany from refugee camps in Turkey- their number capped at 72000 per year.
EU asylum laws have apparently not been changed, but the principles have been distorted. The only hope for 'success' of the policy is that a 'culture of expectation' is being changed throughout many Asian and African countries, so that millions are less confident that irregular travel to Europe will have a personally good outcome.

Comment: It has been necessary 'in the end' (but actually, we're nowhere near the end) to recognise (as should have been done all along) the special position of the Syrian refugees; but much, much more should be done to stabilise huge populations in the Third World which see little reason to stay at home. Some of them are:

- shelter in a European country should be temporary (for the duration of the crisis) not permanent
- asylum should be for that presenting persecuted individual, not automatically for his entire family
- university fees should not be 'paid' but funded as loans with an expectation of being repaid
- legal challenges to a government decision to refuse asylum should be heard in a safe country outside europe

- the countries producing bona fide refugees should be getting comprehensively thumped by smart sanctions
- the countries producing economic migrants should be getting effective help to relocate economic activity eg agriculture from Europe to those countries
- foreign policies (intervention etc) by European countries should consider their likely destabilising effect upon vulnerable populations
( I have not been able to think up a way to protect those vulnerable in our own society from direct competition for subsidised social housing. The concept of such housing probably needs rethought.)



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Trying to have a "sensible" outlook to immigration? Sure ..........you're just a racist murdering paedophile despot....or something akin to that..
 

Kevin Parlon

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Deiscirt
We will continue to have a shambles of an asylum system until we renegotiate or withdraw from the 1952 Refugee Convention which in no way takes into account the ease of international air travel and the freedom of movement in the EU.
Correct. Though for some people, the UN has taken on some sort of quasi-religious authority and such talk is heresy. Prime among them would be people like our President and fringe extremists like Aodhan O'Riordan.
 

atkin8

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Minnie me at it again hope this twee twit does not get re elected President again, Sean Gallagher was a better option .
 

atkin8

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Trying to have a "sensible" outlook to immigration? Sure ..........you're just a racist murdering paedophile despot....or something akin to that..
What are you name caller for a start and you don't even know the person .
 

JacquesHughes

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Places in the news- Gabon.

Recently, in a single day, the international rescue mission 'plucked' 6500 would be migrants from unseaworthy craft off the coast of Libya. Most wish to live in Europe, through the legal mechanism of seeking political asylum. Journalists reported they were mainly from sub-Saharan Africa.

Gabon is going through some political turmoil at present.Africa - BBC News
What do we know about this new possible source of refugees?

Gabon is a comparatively small African country, squeezed between Cameroon and Republic of Congo. It probably has some lonely people as it's population of 2 million (approximately) live over a surface area very close to that of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (267,000 sq km; UK is 243,000 sq km). It has a useful stretch of coastline, and is stuffed with natural resources (oil, uranium, manganese) which have been affected by the collapse in commodity prices (see Chinese slow down elsewhere).
GDP per capita is $18,600 (very inequally distributed)- about 4 times the sub-Saharan average. Unemployment is estimated at 21%. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gb.html
 

Felixness

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Recently, in a single day, the international rescue mission 'plucked' 6500 would be migrants from unseaworthy craft off the coast of Libya. Most wish to live in Europe, through the legal mechanism of seeking political asylum. Journalists reported they were mainly from sub-Saharan Africa.

Gabon is going through some political turmoil at present.Africa - BBC News
What do we know about this new possible source of refugees?

Gabon is a comparatively small African country, squeezed between Cameroon and Republic of Congo. It probably has some lonely people as it's population of 2 million (approximately) live over a surface area very close to that of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (267,000 sq km; UK is 243,000 sq km). It has a useful stretch of coastline, and is stuffed with natural resources (oil, uranium, manganese) which have been affected by the collapse in commodity prices (see Chinese slow down elsewhere).
GDP per capita is $18,600 (very inequally distributed)- about 4 times the sub-Saharan average. Unemployment is estimated at 21%. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gb.html
Gabon has been ruled by the same family for 50 years and it's down to the people to put an end to that if they don't like it. The President Ali Bongo(real name) looks as corrupt as they come. All said and done, life sucks in Africa and we should stop giving billions in Aid to be divided between the corrupt dictators and their supporters. There should be no asylum for Africans in Ireland, there's an awful lot of Nigerians here already.
 
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Hello all,

We're a campaign group which is seeking to make reform of asylum and immigration policies an electoral issue in Ireland. We're asking people to sign our petition calling for a referendum to return migration policies to the national level and impose limits in accordance with the needs of current Irish residents.

Our petition is at change.org and our website is goodboundariescampaign.com.

Please take a look, sign and share. We also welcome any and all feedback!

Elaine
GoodBoundariesAdmin.
 

Kershaw

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Hello all,

We're a campaign group which is seeking to make reform of asylum and immigration policies an electoral issue in Ireland. We're asking people to sign our petition calling for a referendum to return migration policies to the national level and impose limits in accordance with the needs of current Irish residents.

Our petition is at change.org and our website is goodboundariescampaign.com.

Please take a look, sign and share. We also welcome any and all feedback!

Elaine
GoodBoundariesAdmin.
link to the petition:
https://www.change.org/p/submitapetition-oireachtas-ie-create-proactive-needs-based-and-limited-migration-policies-for-ireland

link to the website:
goodboundariescampaign.com
 

McTell

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No
Look at this; overtones of sex and violence from afd:

Reads: "Tourists welcome / deport asylum seekers and islamists."

 

Skypeme

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Look at this; overtones of sex and violence from afd:

Reads: "Tourists welcome / deport asylum seekers and islamists."

I might point out that the billboard advt. is from the NPD party and not the AfD, two different groups.
 

McTell

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No
I might point out that the billboard advt. is from the NPD party and not the AfD, two different groups.
Slip of the whatsit :roll: NPD are more hard line.
 

JacquesHughes

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Behaviours an asylum policy must be able to manage.

This DW article briefly reviews the methods advised (by activists), to those refused asylum, in order to frustrate deportation even at the very last step.
Hundreds of migrants resisting deportation from Germany at the last minute | Germany | DW.COM | 19.08.2016

The 'w2eu' website has advised; once on the plane, deportees should explain [presumably to the airline staff] that they are not taking this flight willingly, 'a loud no' may be enough or 'loud screams, refusing to sit down, refusing to buckle safety belt, or throwing yourself on the floor'. Sometimes, presented with this alarming sight, other passengers have 'shown their support' eg last week for a migrant being deported to Cameroon from Brussels who began yelling.
Despite this and obstruction by some receiving governments 'not helping in the identification of their national or the issuing of passport substitutes' in 2016 Germany anticipates deporting '100,000 people' [an extremely challenging figure of nearly 2,000 per week].
 

Kershaw

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This DW article briefly reviews the methods advised (by activists), to those refused asylum, in order to frustrate deportation even at the very last step.
Hundreds of migrants resisting deportation from Germany at the last minute | Germany | DW.COM | 19.08.2016

The 'w2eu' website has advised; once on the plane, deportees should explain [presumably to the airline staff] that they are not taking this flight willingly, 'a loud no' may be enough or 'loud screams, refusing to sit down, refusing to buckle safety belt, or throwing yourself on the floor'. Sometimes, presented with this alarming sight, other passengers have 'shown their support' eg last week for a migrant being deported to Cameroon from Brussels who began yelling.
Despite this and obstruction by some receiving governments 'not helping in the identification of their national or the issuing of passport substitutes' in 2016 Germany anticipates deporting '100,000 people' [an extremely challenging figure of nearly 2,000 per week].
they need to start using the military.
 

JacquesHughes

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Might some societies have a different attitude to the truth?

Haris Stanikzai (newly arrived child migrant in the UK, from the Jungle camp) says according to his uncle he will take a dental test to 'prove his age'.
'Child migrant' will have dental test to prove age after investigators found dating profile online which says he's 22

First, we might note, how useful it has been to public debate that some information about this asylum applicant has been in the public domain, where it's veracity can be examined. The newspapers know the date of birth this chap registered at the Home Office. That date 1-1-1999 would give Haris an age of 17 but on a dating website, he volunteers his age is 22.

Secondly, his uncle ( NB not his lawyer who would be less forthcoming) has entered public debate with an ingenuous claim that lying about one's age, indeed about one's name, and submitting a false photograph of oneself 'is not unusual in Afghanistan'; which suggests a different attitude to the truth than the one we have valued in our culture.
 

mickeycoote

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Asylum makes sense when we are talking about a neighbouring country. You are fleeing danger, so you cross the border to find sanctuary. Your neighbours will hopefully take care of you until it is safe for you to return.

So: if there was a civil war in the UK or in Iceland, I would be in favour of Ireland, as good neighbours, to take care of some asylum seekers from those countries until it was safe for them to go back.
 

Cynicist

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Haris Stanikzai (newly arrived child migrant in the UK, from the Jungle camp) says according to his uncle he will take a dental test to 'prove his age'.
'Child migrant' will have dental test to prove age after investigators found dating profile online which says he's 22

First, we might note, how useful it has been to public debate that some information about this asylum applicant has been in the public domain, where it's veracity can be examined. The newspapers know the date of birth this chap registered at the Home Office. That date 1-1-1999 would give Haris an age of 17 but on a dating website, he volunteers his age is 22.

Secondly, his uncle ( NB not his lawyer who would be less forthcoming) has entered public debate with an ingenuous claim that lying about one's age, indeed about one's name, and submitting a false photograph of oneself 'is not unusual in Afghanistan'; which suggests a different attitude to the truth than the one we have valued in our culture.
The case of one migrant should colour opinion on the whole issue because to seriously consider the immigration problem as a whole is much too taxing.

Better to concentrate on the miutiae of for example; the continuing exodus of one of those from war torn countries than to question Western involvement in proxy or direct wars and ongoing bombing affecting civilians.
 
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