Re-thinking Asylum


recedite

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It has to be noted that there are jobs for which there are no EU applicants.
Such as?
IMO there are 2 basic types of jobs that "can't" get EU applicants.
Jobs where the wages are too low. hence bringing in these people keeps the wages down.
And jobs which are designed to get cousins etc into the country eg northern bangladesh curry specialist.
 

reg11

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Such as?
IMO there are 2 basic types of jobs that "can't" get EU applicants.
Jobs where the wages are too low. hence bringing in these people keeps the wages down.
And jobs which are designed to get cousins etc into the country eg northern bangladesh curry specialist.
Jobs in the meat processing industry and certain hospitality roles.

It's true to say the wages are too low for us, but not for others. If us Irish don't want to do those jobs then it's good that some people from abroad would want to. Lets be honest, young Irish don't aspire to certain jobs. Working Irish people get the benefits of their money going further and the unemployed get an economy that can afford to support them. Almost all people benefit except the odd, rich old eccentric cranks like Dalkey home owning John Waters with nutcase fantasies about an Ireland of yore that never was a reality for the vast majority of Irish people.
 

recedite

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Jobs in the meat processing industry and certain hospitality roles.
It's true to say the wages are too low for us, but not for others.
Do you mean halal meat, or just slaughterhouse work in general?
Why would any employer pay decent wages if he could just get people in from abroad and pay them less?

Some jobs like teachers and civil service jobs are protected from this kind of competition by their Irish language requirement, others make some difficulty for foreigners getting accreditation (eg physiothererapists are a dime a dozen in most countries, but even European qualified people find it impossible to get recognition here, where it is a very much overrated profession)
The people in these kind of "sheltered" jobs are usually the ones most in favour of bringing in migrants.
 

Lagertha

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RTE news did another pro Muslim puff piece on Friday. The so called Muslim Sisters of Eire were celebrating the 7th annual Hijab day in some hotel, which RTE felt was worthy of spending licence fee money covering, it was basically telling us how great the hijab is and how wonderfully liberating and happy it makes these women feel. The interview finished by telling us that the ladies would be finishing the day off with their weekly soup kitchen for the homeless.

No mention of the women in some Middle Eastern countries who have been imprisoned for not wearing their hijabs in protest at being forced to wear a hijab. No mention of the fact that a Muslim woman is only required to cover her hair while she is praying and that the hijab is in fact more of a political statement than anything else. No mention that females are separated from males at mosques and that they have a lesser value in Islam than men have. Nope, according to RTE all is wonderful in Islam and we should embrace it.
 

Lagertha

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Such as?
IMO there are 2 basic types of jobs that "can't" get EU applicants.
Jobs where the wages are too low. hence bringing in these people keeps the wages down.
And jobs which are designed to get cousins etc into the country eg northern bangladesh curry specialist.
Exactly, we often here that there's a shortage of chefs from these Muslim countries and it's put forward as an argument for allowing more of them to come here to work, what isn't being said is that the men refused to let women work which is why there's a shortage, if the women were allowed to work there would be no shortage. How many kebab shops do we actually need and who the hell eats that filth anyway? I walked up Parnell Street in Limerick the other day, there used to be a fishmongers, a dry cleaners and a curtain shop there, now they've been replaced with a Muslim owned and run ethnic food store, there's an ethnic fast food place next door to that and a Walk in Medical centre that you guessed it, is staffed with Muslim male doctors.
 

Trampas

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May I recommend "The strange death of Europe" by Douglas Murray. It will serve as an antidote to so many Irish Times editorials.

Yet another one during the week deploring the fact that a few EU states have had the temerity to reject immigration quotas imposed by the EU. Of course next year's quota will be higher, and the year after.....and, well.....you know the rest. With any luck that infernal rag will go belly up soon.
 

reg11

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Do you mean halal meat, or just slaughterhouse work in general?
Why would any employer pay decent wages if he could just get people in from abroad and pay them less?

Some jobs like teachers and civil service jobs are protected from this kind of competition by their Irish language requirement, others make some difficulty for foreigners getting accreditation (eg physiothererapists are a dime a dozen in most countries, but even European qualified people find it impossible to get recognition here, where it is a very much overrated profession)
The people in these kind of "sheltered" jobs are usually the ones most in favour of bringing in migrants.
Not just halal meat processing but all meat processing. To certain people from abroad the wages are decent but of course to Irish people they aren't. It seems the wages for some jobs aren't good enough for any EU citizen to take up. That's the reality. However, if those jobs get done then that should create better jobs that the Irish would want to do.

What you say in the last paragraph is true. But it's also true you won't find many if any Irish person complaining that certain foreigners are taking certain jobs that they'd never in a month of Sundays do even if the pay was vastly increased.
 

Shpake

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Not just halal meat processing but all meat processing. To certain people from abroad the wages are decent but of course to Irish people they aren't. It seems the wages for some jobs aren't good enough for any EU citizen to take up. That's the reality. However, if those jobs get done then that should create better jobs that the Irish would want to do.

What you say in the last paragraph is true. But it's also true you won't find many if any Irish person complaining that certain foreigners are taking certain jobs that they'd never in a month of Sundays do even if the pay was vastly increased.
A shame that the poor animals don't get a word in. I'm talking about battery-hen production, force feeding ducks so as to enlarge their livers, the cruelty involved in live cattle transport, pepping them up with antibiotics. Ireland does pretty good with beef and lamb production as the animals are grass fed and free to roam & they aren't hormone treated. But one criticism: This halal method of killing ain't pretty. In fact it's very cruel. Oh dear... straying from the topic
 

Shpake

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RTE news did another pro Muslim puff piece on Friday. The so called Muslim Sisters of Eire were celebrating the 7th annual Hijab day in some hotel, which RTE felt was worthy of spending licence fee money covering, it was basically telling us how great the hijab is and how wonderfully liberating and happy it makes these women feel. The interview finished by telling us that the ladies would be finishing the day off with their weekly soup kitchen for the homeless.

No mention of the women in some Middle Eastern countries who have been imprisoned for not wearing their hijabs in protest at being forced to wear a hijab. No mention of the fact that a Muslim woman is only required to cover her hair while she is praying and that the hijab is in fact more of a political statement than anything else. No mention that females are separated from males at mosques and that they have a lesser value in Islam than men have. Nope, according to RTE all is wonderful in Islam and we should embrace it.
Islam will conquer all. Allah shall be victorious.
The twists and turns that life takes... The Isis go on their mass killing campaigns in France Germany GB Sweden Belgium etc. and much the same time the Imams try to make Islam palatable or acceptable... Islamic women in the workforce, but wearing their hijabs/niquabs. It's a bit of a turn-off for me to be confronted by some girl/woman/lady wearing her black headgear scarf if I'm buying a cup of coffee. On the other hand it's a signal to the male world not to go chatting her up. Like who would want to get involved in a situation with the knife-wielding brothers cousins and uncles. I'd stick with the transaction of euros for coffee. It's a bit like in the Christian/secular world of a woman dressing herself in a nun's habit. Apart from a tiny statistic of males, like who would want to get involved with a nun? The attire sends out a signal. And I've no problem with that. If she's lesbian or frigid or all tied up in islam or her marriage, good luck to her. Of late in Europe I've noticed the islamic girls wearing make-up or high heels along with their black headscarves. Kind of contradictory signals.
But with the ban on the hajib, along come the Chinese and Japanese men and women wearing their surgical masks to protect against car pollution particles. And the police stand idly by! The very outrage of it!:rolleyes2:

The little matter of muslims avoiding handshakes. My recent trip to Eastern Europe left me with an unpleasant itch. Oh embarrassment. Can't find any explanation for where I picked it up other than by shaking someone's hand. No other close encounters whatsoever. Here Lord Buddha should conquer. The Thais have this very charming way of greeting one another: They join their hands like in prayer and they give a little bow. By far the nicest way of greeting. I find all the European hand-shaking a bit tiresome. Of course back in the America of the 70's french kissing with the girls was quite normal. Those days of youth and innocence.
 

recedite

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Not just halal meat processing but all meat processing. To certain people from abroad the wages are decent but of course to Irish people they aren't. It seems the wages for some jobs aren't good enough for any EU citizen to take up. That's the reality.
The reality is that the employment market never pays higher wages than it needs to.
And the reality is that native Irish people have been slaughtering animals for millennia. Its not like we have some genetic objection to it. If the wages are adequate, people will do it.
Its true there are a lot more vegetarians around nowadays (and fair play to them) but this country has always been a cattle rearing society. That's why the oldest myths and legends are mostly based around cattle raids and the lure of prize bulls.
 

Kevin Parlon

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In our times people in troubled countries are up against a massive military industrial complex that's enriching to those of us in Western countries.
What? You think our societies are "up against" a "massive military industrial complex". I'm not trying to be mean here but what are you talking about?
 

reg11

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What? You think our societies are "up against" a "massive military industrial complex". I'm not trying to be mean here but what are you talking about?
Look at a map of the world, see where many countries have straight lines. Many of these countries were created in accordance with Western policy. Ethnic difference wasn't respected or it may have been deliberate. Whatever, many ethnic wars ensued in these countries which created a big market for Western arms. A massive industry. E.G one in four manufacturing jobs in the UK 20 yrs ago were arms related. Generally those types of jobs are very well paid. The consequences of that trade often results in people having to suffer under a heavily armed brutal regime.

It just would be far harder for people to oppose these regimes than the people in our history. Somebody was asking why don't these people sort out their own countries. The answer is that the vested interests in Western probably wouldn't want them to. They arrive at our doorstep, what are we to do?
 

recedite

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It just would be far harder for people to oppose these regimes than the people in our history. Somebody was asking why don't these people sort out their own countries. The answer is that the vested interests in Western probably wouldn't want them to. They arrive at our doorstep, what are we to do?
Can you tell me where to buy one of these Irish-made assault rifles?
If you want to blame us for their overpopulation, you'd be better off ranting about our pharmaceutical industry.
All those modern medicines keeping them alive, and reducing child mortality.
 

Kevin Parlon

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Look at a map of the world, see where many countries have straight lines. Many of these countries were created in accordance with Western policy. Ethnic difference wasn't respected or it may have been deliberate. Whatever, many ethnic wars ensued in these countries which created a big market for Western arms. A massive industry. E.G one in four manufacturing jobs in the UK 20 yrs ago were arms related. Generally those types of jobs are very well paid. The consequences of that trade often results in people having to suffer under a heavily armed brutal regime.

It just would be far harder for people to oppose these regimes than the people in our history. Somebody was asking why don't these people sort out their own countries. The answer is that the vested interests in Western probably wouldn't want them to. They arrive at our doorstep, what are we to do?
Rubber tires account for more US export revenue than do arms sales. A lot of those UK jobs are BAE. You've just heard someone say something and you're repeating it without ever bothering to check to see if it was true. Do you do that a lot?
 

yosef shompeter

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No, I genuinely believe that we shouldn't be taking them in. Where does it end, how many is enough? Where do we house them? How do we provide for them? What services do we cut in order to provide for them? These people need to sort out their own countries and fight for the kind of country that they want to live in. Brussels is pushing for an homogenisation of EU countries, people are being encouraged to see being proud of their country and their traditions and cultural heritage as a bad thing but to see Africans and Islam as some sort of wonderful diverse enrichment, it isn't. Europe is Europe, most Europeans are white and Christian, most Africans are black, most Muslims aren't white, making Europe non white and Muslim is racist and anti Christian.

It oppresses women and LGBT people because it is those groups that are going to suffer the most. They can't keep women and children safe in official camps from the gangs of rapists yet it's the gangs of rapists that they want to allow into Europe to prey on Europeans while they tell us that there's nothing to worry about. A man coming from Mali or the Congo is not going to treat women with respect. They come from a culture that doesn't view women as equals and that lives by a culture of taking what they want by force. We cannot continue to take in people who aren't willing to sort out their wars back home. Europeans fought civil and World wars, it's what it takes to build a fair society. These men aren't running from war, they're running towards benefits.
I don't think that that argument is going to fly. Not in the present climate of opinion. A much better angle would be to point out that objectively, many of the new arrivals don't seem to have a logical reason to feel persecuted at all. The present policy is simply lining the pockets of the people smugglers and stretching the social services to the limit to the disadvantage of the home-grown poor. It does also line the pockets of solicitors, judges court interpreters, stenographers etc.
Taking it further, the money could be better spent on the third world. All these young men could be and would be working to tend to their extended family out there in Africa Asia. Here they are just hanging around.
Then there are the unlucky ones who drown in the Mediterranean. Not pretty at all.
 

Shpake

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No doubt about it, the political landscape has changed noticeably in Europe on Asylum matters. When did that happen? I recall 2015 reading of a certain dismay in Angela Merkel when M. Hollande the French premier offered to accept a maximum of 20,000 Syrians. She had taken in 1.3 Bn. The New Years Eve rape parties in Cologne and other German cities (and the press hush-up) was a point when it hit home to Joe Soap -- someone you should never ever under-estimate. And the politicians don't miss the message that the elections send. If a politician barely gets in by the skin of their ass, or is turfed out altogether, you'd be surpised how quickly they learn.
This year should bring some new developments: Euro elections, then Local elections in Germany and two or three federal elections. Frau Merkel may have diffused the situation somewhat with her promise to resign before the end of her term.
As for Ireland. If there was an election here, I'd say that the country is so polarized by Brexit that the same old polarity FG FF would prevail. Well the Red C polls do a good job here.
 

Lagertha

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No doubt about it, the political landscape has changed noticeably in Europe on Asylum matters. When did that happen? I recall 2015 reading of a certain dismay in Angela Merkel when M. Hollande the French premier offered to accept a maximum of 20,000 Syrians. She had taken in 1.3 Bn. The New Years Eve rape parties in Cologne and other German cities (and the press hush-up) was a point when it hit home to Joe Soap -- someone you should never ever under-estimate. And the politicians don't miss the message that the elections send. If a politician barely gets in by the skin of their ass, or is turfed out altogether, you'd be surpised how quickly they learn.
This year should bring some new developments: Euro elections, then Local elections in Germany and two or three federal elections. Frau Merkel may have diffused the situation somewhat with her promise to resign before the end of her term.
As for Ireland. If there was an election here, I'd say that the country is so polarized by Brexit that the same old polarity FG FF would prevail. Well the Red C polls do a good job here.
There won't be an election here because the politicians are terrified of what would happen so they're happy to hide behind Brexit.
 

Clanrickard

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May I recommend "The strange death of Europe" by Douglas Murray. It will serve as an antidote to so many Irish Times editorials.

Yet another one during the week deploring the fact that a few EU states have had the temerity to reject immigration quotas imposed by the EU. Of course next year's quota will be higher, and the year after.....and, well.....you know the rest. With any luck that infernal rag will go belly up soon.
Have read it. A good read and well worth perusing.
 
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