Rebel Prods Book Launch

Ramon Mercadar

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Rebel Prods Book Launch

A new book entitled Rebel Prods: The Forgotten Story of Protestant Radical Nationalists and the 1916 Rising by the late Dr Valerie Jones, will be launched by the former Archbishop of Dublin, the Rt Revd Walton Empey, in the Treasury, Christ Church Cathedral, Dublin, next Monday evening at 6.30pm.

The book, brought to fruition by Dr Valerie Jones’s daughter, Dr Heather Jones, an Associate Professor in History at the London School of Economics, has been published by Ashfield Press and has been supported by the Church of Ireland’s Historical Centenaries Working Group as one of its several contributions to marking the centenary of 1916.

The outgoing Chairman on the Historical Centenaries Working Group, the Rt Revd John McDowell, has observed that :

‘one of the objectives of more or less everyone who has been involved in the Decade of Centenaries has been to explore the complexity of Irish history during this crucial period. Many people are aware of the involvement of well known, and often well connected, Irish Protestants in radical politics during the revolutionary period. However, there were others whose participation on the republican side are much less well known, or barely known at all but whose stories deserve to be told and reflected upon. This book fills a gap in the scholarship of that period and should also be of interest to a much wider readership who, once again, history will surprise.’

Valerie Jones was an Irish language enthusiast and a dedicated and singularly effective Communications Officer for the dioceses of Dublin & Glendalough.

https://www.ireland.anglican.org/news/6767/church-of-ireland-notes-from
 


PeaceGoalie

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Rebel Prods Book Launch

A new book entitled Rebel Prods: The Forgotten Story of Protestant Radical Nationalists and the 1916 Rising by the late Dr Valerie Jones, will be launched by the former Archbishop of Dublin, the Rt Revd Walton Empey, in the Treasury, Christ Church Cathedral, Dublin, next Monday evening at 6.30pm.
Bravo! A worthwhile effort.
 

between the bridges

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Lundies...
 

SideysGhost

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Should be an interesting read, I'll try and pick up a copy when I'm home next year
 

Ramon Mercadar

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Received a present a few days ago of a new book called ‘Rebel Prods’ written by Valerie Jones who died in 2014. The sub-title says it all ‘Rebel Prods-The Forgotten Story of Protestant Radical Nationalists and the 1916 Rising’. It was prepared for publication by her daughter and son and published by Ashfield Press, Dublin. It was sent to me by the Church of Ireland Bishop of Clogher who was one of those who attended the launch in Christchurch Cathedral, just over a week ago. I very much appreciate his kind thought. I have only skipped through the book and read a few chapters so far. It is a most interesting read.

This book is full of information about the radical men and women from the Protestant tradition who took part in the 1916 Rising and many of whom have been written out of the history. There were those from the Protestant tradition who played a major role in procuring arms for the Irish Volunteers- Casement, Figgis, Conor O’Brien, Thomas Myles, Childers, Mary Spring Rice and Hobson. Some Protestant women took a leading part in forming Cumann na mBán. Elizabeth Bloxham from Westport was a founding member as were other radical Protestants from a middle class background. Kathleen Lynn was another woman from Mayo who played a major role in the Rising and afterwards. Countess Markievicz is, of course, the best known. ...

‘Rebel Prods’ by Joe McVeigh - Jude Collins
 

Karloff

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This book is full of information about the radical men and women from the Protestant tradition who took part in the 1916 Rising and many of whom have been written out of the history. There were those from the Protestant tradition who played a major role in procuring arms for the Irish Volunteers- Casement, Figgis, Conor O’Brien, Thomas Myles, Childers, Mary Spring Rice and Hobson. Some Protestant women took a leading part in forming Cumann na mBán. Elizabeth Bloxham from Westport was a founding member as were other radical Protestants from a middle class background. Kathleen Lynn was another woman from Mayo who played a major role in the Rising and afterwards. Countess Markievicz is, of course, the best known. ...
Some of those are very famous - i wouldn't say they have been 'written out' of the story - that reads to me a little bit like a reading from the black legend interpretation of independent Ireland as a terrible place for Protestants which has no basis in fact.

I wonder what Ulster Loyalists think of them, that is a more interesting line of inquiry - do they see them as traitors? Ah i see above... 'Lundies'. The equivalent of Castle Catholic.
 

death or glory

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Some of those are very famous - i wouldn't say they have been 'written out' of the story - that reads to me a little bit like a reading from the black legend interpretation of independent Ireland as a terrible place for Protestants which has no basis in fact.

I wonder what Ulster Loyalists think of them, that is a more interesting line of inquiry - do they see them as traitors? Ah i see above... 'Lundies'. The equivalent of Castle Catholic.
Today marks the burning of lundy who was the traitor who tried to betray the Apprentice boys during the siege of Derry in 1689.
So to loyalists a Lundy is a traitor.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38194733
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I'm pretty sure that there was a significant writing out of the history of Irish nationalism the place taken by many protestant and methodist supporters of efforts towards nationalism.

Alice Milligan co-founder of Shan Van Vocht and someone who tirelessly went around the country to fairs and other gatherings and because of the lack of literacy of the times actually ran stage-shows on the them of support for Irish nationalism.

I suspect it was part of the narrative of the counter-revolution that the part of people other than catholic background was substantially played down so that the 'catholic' narrative of Irish nationalism could be turned up.

In fact I suspect it would have been far better that the United Irishmen had been successful in rebellion much earlier to have prevented the catholic counter-revolution altogether in Ireland in the 20th century.

It seems to me the United Irishmen were a much better place from which to start and in fairness those involved in the rebellion in 1916 were themselves probably a better place to start from the later narrative that was taken over by the counter revolution.

 
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Ex celt

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Should be an interesting read, I'll try and pick up a copy when I'm home next year
Home for you is under the Crown and the UJ in the Colonies. You promised us that the UJ would be removed from the sheepshaggers' flag. Are you still dipping your wick in the sheep dip? You disgust me. Your bigotry and sectarianism are the least of your appalling character traits.
 

Karloff

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I'm pretty sure that there was a significant writing out of the history of Irish nationalism the place taken by many protestant and methodist supporters of efforts towards nationalism.

Alice Milligan co-founder of Shan Van Vocht and someone who tirelessly went around the country to fairs and other gatherings and because of the lack of literacy of the times actually ran stage-shows on the them of support for Irish nationalism.

I suspect it was part of the narrative of the counter-revolution that the part of people other than catholic background was substantially played down so that the 'catholic' narrative of Irish nationalism could be turned up.

In fact I suspect it would have been far better that the United Irishmen had been successful in rebellion much earlier to have prevented the catholic counter-revolution altogether in Ireland in the 20th century.

It seems to me the United Irishmen were a much better place from which to start and in fairness those involved in the rebellion in 1916 were themselves probably a better place to start from the later narrative that was taken over by the counter revolution.

And when Childers' son was invited to be President how does that fit with the theory? Or Douglas Hyde? Or the other Protestant nationalists who served in various roles in the Govt since then.

There may have been an attempt to associate Nationalism with Catholicism but it did not constitute a 'significant writing out' of the role of individual Protestants (the role of collectivist and well connected Protestantism in Irish independence is easier to analyse, there was none - if you sided with the nationalists the COI wanted nothing to do with you), it is understandable that Nationalism and Catholicism would always be uneasy bedfellows like Republicanism and Catholicism esp considering the Catholic Church's flirtatious connections with British rule here from the 19th C on. True Protestants who follows their conscience only would naturally be drawn to Irish Republicanism (unlike tribalistic Ulster Protestantism).
 

death or glory

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And when Childers' son was invited to be President how does that fit with the theory? Or Douglas Hyde? Or the other Protestant nationalists who served in various roles in the Govt since then.

There may have been an attempt to associate Nationalism with Catholicism but it did not constitute a 'significant writing out' of the role of individual Protestants (the role of collectivist and well connected Protestantism in Irish independence is easier to analyse, there was none), it is understandable that Nationalism and Catholicism would always be uneasy bedfellows like Republicanism and Catholicism esp considering the Catholic Church's flirtatious connections with British rule here from the 19th C on. True Protestants who follows their conscience only would naturally be drawn to Irish Republicanism (unlike tribalistic Ulster Protestantism).
Who are you to say who true prods are?
To quote a true prod "never, never, never"
 

Karloff

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Who are you to say who true prods are?
To quote a true prod "never, never, never"
True Protestants would be individualists, they would make their own interpretations of everything and not accept for acceptance's sake what was handed on to them. Such a mindset would enable them to pierce tribal allegiance issues. There were never many of them around.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
And when Childers' son was invited to be President how does that fit with the theory? Or Douglas Hyde? Or the other Protestant nationalists who served in various roles in the Govt since then.

There may have been an attempt to associate Nationalism with Catholicism but it did not constitute a 'significant writing out' of the role of individual Protestants (the role of collectivist and well connected Protestantism in Irish independence is easier to analyse, there was none - if you sided with the nationalists the COI wanted nothing to do with you), it is understandable that Nationalism and Catholicism would always be uneasy bedfellows like Republicanism and Catholicism esp considering the Catholic Church's flirtatious connections with British rule here from the 19th C on. True Protestants who follows their conscience only would naturally be drawn to Irish Republicanism (unlike tribalistic Ulster Protestantism).
In Alice Milligan's case she was written out as an Irish nationalist because she came from a methodist background. She died pretty much forgotten in 1953. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Milligan

'After the death of Parnell she became an ardent nationalist. In 1894 with Jenny Armour she founded branches of the Irish Women's Association in Belfast and other places, and became its first president. With Ethna Carbery she founded two nationalist publications in the 1890s, The Northern Patriot, and later The Shan Van Vocht, a monthly literary magazine published in Belfast from 1896 to 1899.[3]

She was a figure of the Irish literary revival, and a close associate of Douglas Hyde. She was also 'on first-name terms' with WB Yeats, James Connolly and Roger Casement. Tomas MacDonagh, writing in the Irish Review in September 1914, described her as 'the best Irish poet of his generation'.



The inscription on her gravestone reads 'She loved no other place but Ireland'.
 

death or glory

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True Protestants would be individualists, they would make their own interpretations of everything and not accept for acceptance's sake what was handed on to them. Such a mindset would enable them to pierce tribal allegiance issues. There were never many of them around.
So true prods are all individuals who just happen to agree with your point of view.
Thanks for sharing that nugget with us.
 

Karloff

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In Alice Milligan's case she was written out as an Irish nationalist because she came from a methodist background. She died pretty much forgotten in 1953. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Milligan

'After the death of Parnell she became an ardent nationalist. In 1894 with Jenny Armour she founded branches of the Irish Women's Association in Belfast and other places, and became its first president. With Ethna Carbery she founded two nationalist publications in the 1890s, The Northern Patriot, and later The Shan Van Vocht, a monthly literary magazine published in Belfast from 1896 to 1899.[3]

She was a figure of the Irish literary revival, and a close associate of Douglas Hyde. She was also 'on first-name terms' with WB Yeats, James Connolly and Roger Casement. Tomas MacDonagh, writing in the Irish Review in September 1914, described her as 'the best Irish poet of his generation'.



The inscription on her gravestone reads 'She loved no other place but Ireland'.
I don't see the evidence that she was 'written out'. Sounds like she was a friend of the First President of this country.

So true prods are all individuals who just happen to agree with your point of view.
Thanks for sharing that nugget with us.
No they would have seen the injustice of British rule in Ireland and their conscience would have done the rest. The thing with Protestantism post Reformation is that it often became a kind of Catholicism, group identity - bigotry - collective thinking, ritualisation etc - which is different to the one who thinks for themselves.
 

GDPR

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Lumpy "death or glory" is a far more successful Anti-Catholic than you could be in your wildest dreams. If you had any wisdom you would be metaphorically sitting by his chair soaking up what he has to say. Thank God you dont however.
 

death or glory

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Lumpy "death or glory" is a far more successful Anti-Catholic than you could be in your wildest dreams. If you had any wisdom you would be metaphorically sitting by his chair soaking up what he has to say. Thank God you dont however.
Well Thank you REF,
and here's me thinking you didn't care.
 

between the bridges

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True Protestants would be individualists, they would make their own interpretations of everything and not accept for acceptance's sake what was handed on to them. Such a mindset would enable them to pierce tribal allegiance issues. There were never many of them around.
Listen be honest who in their right mind would want to forsake gods chosen few for a bunch of big girls blouses that we have been beatch slapping for over 400 years...
 


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