Referendum Commission publishes its information on the marriage referendum

He3

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Independent information on the marriage is now available from the Referendum Commission. Link to the comprehensive document:

Marriage Referendum - RefCom 2015

Summary -

Effect of this proposal

If this referendum is passed:

Two people of the opposite sex or of the same sex will be able to marry each other.

The other detailed rules about who may marry will continue to be set out in legislation.

The Constitutional status of marriage will remain unchanged.

A marriage between two people of the same sex will have the same status under the Constitution as a marriage between a man and a woman.

Married couples of the opposite sex or of the same sex will be recognised as a family and be entitled to the Constitutional protection for families.
It covers a lot of ground, including a survey of marriage law. It needs more content yet as the Children and Family Relationships Act is now in force.

The Commission is chaired by High Court Judge Kevin Cross.

You can confirm whether you are on the voting register here: www.checktheregister.ie. If you should be, but are not, you still have time to apply. Follow the links on that site.

Only registered voters who cast a vote in the referendum have a say in the result.
 
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He3

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Shorter summary by Colm O'Gorman:

@Colmogorman: What will happen if #MarRef passes? People will get married, says RefCom 2015. Simple
#YesEquality #YestoLove
Marriage Referendum - RefCom 2015
 

livingstone

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Interestingly, the Referendum Commission seem to rebut talkingshop's claim that the constitutional protection for the family is really mostly just a value statement with no practical constitutional protection.

How the State protects marriage
The precise obligations on the State to protect the institution of marriage have not been set out in detail either in legislation or by the courts. The courts have made a number of decisions which require the protection of the family in specific cases.

The courts have decided that Article 41 requires protection of the family based on marriage. The State cannot penalise the married state or induce individuals not to marry.

The State must at least ensure parity of treatment between marital and non-marital families and may discriminate positively in favour of families based on marriage. For example, the courts decided that tax laws which meant that a married couple were liable for more income tax than an unmarried couple were unconstitutional. Similarly, social welfare rules which meant that a married couple received a lower level of payment than two single people living together were unconstitutional. However, laws under which the State gave extra support to single – parent families were not unconstitutional.

In other cases, the courts have decided that the guarantee of the institution of marriage necessarily involves constitutional protection of certain marital rights such as the right of cohabitation, the right to take responsibility for and actively participate in the education of any children born of the marriage, the right to beget children or further children of the marriage and the right to privacy within the marriage.
So far from being a fuzzy value statement, being allowed to marry would afford gay couples (and their children) the guarantee that they cannot be penalised under the tax or welfare system, the guarantee of marital privacy and potentially further family rights which have not yet been determined by the courts since the nature of unenumerated rights is that it is ever-evolving.
 

Half Nelson

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"The main provisions set out in the general scheme are:

  • Being of the same sex will no longer be an impediment to marriage.
  • The same prohibited degrees of relationship will apply to same-sex marriages as to opposite-sex marriages. (Why?)
  • There will be no new civil partnerships after the legislation comes into effect.
  • Existing civil partners will continue to retain that status and the rights, privileges, obligations and liabilities associated with it unless they choose to marry.
  • Existing civil partners may marry each other. Their civil partnership will be dissolved if they do marry each other.
  • Religious solemnisers will not be obliged to solemnise the marriage of a couple of the same sex. (Why not?)
  • At a marriage ceremony, the parties to a marriage will declare that they accept each other as “husband and wife” or as “spouses of each other”.
  • There will be amendments to a number of Acts to replace the phrases “husband and wife” or “husbands and wives” with the word spouses. (Here we go..:roll:)
  • A change of sex would have no effect on a marriage."
 

Odyessus

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Independent information on the marriage is now available from the Referendum Commission. Link to the comprehensive document:

Marriage Referendum - RefCom 2015

Summary -



It covers a lot of ground, including a survey of marriage law. It needs more content yet as the Children and Family Relationships Act is now in force.

The Commission is chaired by High Court Judge Kevin Cross.

You can confirm whether you are on the voting register here: checktheregister.ie. If you should be, but are not, you still have time to apply. Follow the links on that site.

Only registered voters who cast a vote in the referendum have a say in the result.

"If this referendum is passed:

Two people of the opposite sex or of the same sex will be able to marry each other."

This is wrong. Two people of the opposite sex are already able to marry each other, and will continue to be able to marry each other whether this referendum is passed or not. Only two people of of the same sex are dependent on the referendum being passed to be able to marry each other.
 

He3

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"If this referendum is passed:

Two people of the opposite sex or of the same sex will be able to marry each other."

This is wrong. Two people of the opposite sex are already able to marry each other, and will continue to be able to marry each other whether this referendum is passed or not. Only two people of of the same sex are dependent on the referendum being passed to be able to marry each other.
Odysseus,

I think most people know two people of the opposite sex can marry.

I could be wrong, but that's what I think.
 

Odyessus

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Odysseus,

I think most people know two people of the opposite sex can marry.

I could be wrong, but that's what I think.
Yes, but not just if the referendum is passed. That right does not depend on this amendment. Only the right of same sex couple to marry depends on the referendum being passed.
 

livingstone

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Yes, but not just if the referendum is passed. That right does not depend on this amendment. Only the right of same sex couple to marry depends on the referendum being passed.
The referendum commission haven't said otherwise.

They have said that if the ref is passed, both types of couples will be able to marry. That is correct, that is what will be the case if the referendum is passed. I don't think anyone is under the illusion that if the referendum fails, that straight couples will not be able to marry.
 

ne0ica

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Shorter summary by Colm O'Gorman:

@Colmogorman: What will happen if #MarRef passes? People will get married, says RefCom 2015. Simple
#YesEquality #YestoLove
Marriage Referendum - RefCom 2015
Good man Colm. Wonder does he ever get time to do his day job when he is not busy championing fashionable social cause such as abortion and ssm i.e advocate for prisoners the reason for Amnesty's existence.
 

Odyessus

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The referendum commission haven't said otherwise.

They have said that if the ref is passed, both types of couples will be able to marry. That is correct, that is what will be the case if the referendum is passed. I don't think anyone is under the illusion that if the referendum fails, that straight couples will not be able to marry.
So why mention opposite sex couples at all, since they not affected by whether the referendum is passed or not? Why not simply say:

"If this referendum is passed:

Two people of the same sex will be able to marry each other." ?
 

darkhorse

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"If this referendum is passed:

Two people of the opposite sex or of the same sex will be able to marry each other."

This is wrong. Two people of the opposite sex are already able to marry each other, and will continue to be able to marry each other whether this referendum is passed or not. Only two people of of the same sex are dependent on the referendum being passed to be able to marry each other.
Bizarre how even the Referendum Commission are spinning this
One would have expected more from them
 

Half Nelson

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"If this referendum is passed:

Two people of the opposite sex or of the same sex will be able to marry each other."

This is wrong. Two people of the opposite sex are already able to marry each other, and will continue to be able to marry each other whether this referendum is passed or not. Only two people of of the same sex are dependent on the referendum being passed to be able to marry each other.
Well spotted!

RefCom has published an implied fallacy and given a wrong impression of the proposed amendment.
 

livingstone

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Good man Colm. Wonder does he ever get time to do his day job when he is not busy championing fashionable social cause such as abortion and ssm i.e advocate for prisoners the reason for Amnesty's existence.
I'm going out on a limb to suggest that maybe he's not at work on a Sunday.
 

livingstone

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So why mention opposite sex couples at all, since they not affected by whether the referendum is passed or not? Why not simply say:

"If this referendum is passed:

Two people of the same sex will be able to marry each other." ?
Because that's not an accurate and whole statement of what the state of affairs will be if the referendum is passed.
 

darkhorse

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"If this referendum is passed:

Two people of the opposite sex or of the same sex will be able to marry each other."

This is wrong. Two people of the opposite sex are already able to marry each other, and will continue to be able to marry each other whether this referendum is passed or not. Only two people of of the same sex are dependent on the referendum being passed to be able to marry each other.
And again where they claim that another 'effect' of the proposal is that:
Married couples of the opposite sex or of the same sex will be recognised as a family and be entitled to the Constitutional protection for families.
Whereas we know that this also remains unchanged and thus is not an 'effect' of the proposal
 

The Field Marshal

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Bizarre how even the Referendum Commission are spinning this
One would have expected more from them
They are just another organ of govt.

The judges on the commission always take the govt line and are then appointed to the supreme court.

A real Irish judicial farce of a thing.
 

livingstone

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And again where they claim that another 'effect' of the proposal is that:
Married couples of the opposite sex or of the same sex will be recognised as a family and be entitled to the Constitutional protection for families.
Whereas we know that this also remains unchanged and thus is not an 'effect' of the proposal
That (without the strikethrough) is an accurate statement of the state of affairs if the referendum is passed.
 

mr. jings

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So why mention opposite sex couples at all, since they not affected by whether the referendum is passed or not? Why not simply say:

"If this referendum is passed:

Two people of the same sex will be able to marry each other." ?
Because then you or some other semantic luminary would be banging on about the referendum abolishing man/woman marriages.

Also this wording assures the reader that both forms of marriage will be equal in the eyes of the law.
 


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