• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

Referendum on proposal to abolish Seanad to be held in the Autumn


bob3367

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
8,083
Just saw this on www.breaking news.ie.

Enda Kenny is expecting the country to be able to vote on the proposal to abolish the Seanad in the Autumn.

It also says that there might be other proposals, for example , lowering the voting age from 18 to 17, to be voted on that day.

Personally I would like to retain the Seanad, reform it, make it smaller and have Senators directly elected by the people, and give more powers in relation to legislation and the General political operations of the country.

Oh they would be elected on a four year cycle.
 

McDave

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
13,557
For me it's a straightforward case of abolition. We have too many oversized political fora in this small country of ours. IMO the Senate is on we can completely do without. While we're at it we need to reduce the Dail to under 100.
 

RobertW

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
We don't need senators. Abolish it.

Replacing one talking shop with another possibly elected talking shop is not reform. . It's more of the same.
 

jackryan

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
3,695
The sooner the better. An elected seanad by the people would just be another Dail!
 

Red_93

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
4,678
There is no actual legal reason why all but the 11 nominees of the taoiseach could not be directly elected by the people. Nowhere in the constitution does it say that only out going senators, TDs and councillors have a vote.

In any case, few other states our size have bicameral systems and given the cost associated with its upkeep I think it should be scrapped.
 
Last edited:

Red_93

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
4,678
The sooner the better. An elected seanad by the people would just be another Dail!
Not necessarily. If it were elected in a different manner and subject to different procedures it could be quite beneficial to democracy.
 

Sierra

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
3,489
The sooner the better. An elected seanad by the people would just be another Dail!
Would it though, especially if it used a different voting system such as a list system or the likes? Personally I feel that robust reform may allow us to overcome the mediocrity found in the Dáil - especially if Seanad Éireann was given meaningful power.
 

bob3367

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
8,083
For me it's a straightforward case of abolition. We have too many oversized political fora in this small country of ours. IMO the Senate is on we can completely do without. While we're at it we need to reduce the Dail to under 100.
I would agree with the Dail being reduced to about 96, democracy would be better served with 1 senator per county with major cities also having one.

That would be a massive reduction in politicians, and provide a counter balance to the Dail.
 

Analyzer

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
46,201
Retrograde step. Recyciling is a trendy current buzzword of the current age.

And the Seanad is a recycling centre for failed TDs after the people decide that they are rubbish.....
 

mr. jings

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
8,095
Smaller, cheaper, better calibre through reform of the appointment process and
I could live with it. Way too much of an ivory tower/pasture hybrid in its previous incarnation.
 

RobertW

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
I would agree with the Dail being reduced to about 96, democracy would be better served with 1 senator per county with major cities also having one.

That would be a massive reduction in politicians, and provide a counter balance to the Dail.
What you're forgetting is that that in Ireland the executive dominates the legislature.

That's not going to change.

This is why the Senate is irrelevant and it doesn't matter what tinkering around the edges occur or whether members are elected or not. The senators under any new system will be as irrelevant as the ones under the present system.

Indeed the Dáil is, by and large, irrelevant once the election of a new Taoiseach has occurred.

Also. . .we cannot afford it.
 

bob3367

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
8,083
What you're forgetting is that that in Ireland the executive dominates the legislature.

That's not going to change.

This is why the Senate is irrelevant and it doesn't matter what tinkering around the edges occur or whether members are elected or not. The senators under any new system will be as irrelevant as the ones under the present system.

Indeed the Dáil is, by and large, irrelevant once the election of a new Taoiseach has occurred.

Also. . .we cannot afford it.
Well with less TDs and less Senators the cost would still be less than now.

Also the present system is not fit for purpose, but we need a leaner, cheaper and more answerable democracy.

One party may have a majority in the Dail but not in the Seanad.
 

jackryan

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
3,695
Would it though, especially if it used a different voting system such as a list system or the likes? Personally I feel that robust reform may allow us to overcome the mediocrity found in the Dáil - especially if Seanad Éireann was given meaningful power.
Do you not think that people will still vote the same way as they always did? So the same parties would still win the seats I think you must have too much faith in the intelligence of the voter.
 

lying eyes

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
4,417
Please God the people will vote to shut the senate forthwith. A resting place for failed politicians. Buy a rubber stamp, it will have the same effect, without the long winded drivel.......
 

RobertW

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
Well with less TDs and less Senators the cost would still be less than now.

Also the present system is not fit for purpose, but we need a leaner, cheaper and more answerable democracy.

One party may have a majority in the Dail but not in the Seanad.
You're not going to get what you're looking for as the system itself will remain unchanged. . . . So reducing numbers, elected, etc. . . Will not make a shred of difference as a future cabinet will treat it exactly the same as the present setup is treated. . . By ignoring it.

I'd scrap the senate and reduce the Dáil to 100 seats. I'd also look at the merits of banning the whip system imposed by political parties.
 

Ulster-Lad

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
10,092
Bring it on.

Two houses is a throwback to the days of British rule.
Two elected houses with equal powers sounds about right to me. One to keep the other in check. ;) Say two Senators per county. Reduce the Dáil to 100 Deputies to source the cost.
 

jackryan

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
3,695
What you're forgetting is that that in Ireland the executive dominates the legislature.

That's not going to change.

This is why the Senate is irrelevant and it doesn't matter what tinkering around the edges occur or whether members are elected or not. The senators under any new system will be as irrelevant as the ones under the present system.

Indeed the Dáil is, by and large, irrelevant once the election of a new Taoiseach has occurred.

Also. . .we cannot afford it.
And loads of countries manage without a second chamber New Zealand, Denamrk, Malta to name a few.
 

Ulster-Lad

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
10,092
And loads of countries manage without a second chamber New Zealand, Denamrk, Malta to name a few.
Are they as fecked up as us??
 
Top