REFORM the EU before the next exit vote. OR is the EU perfect?

Surkov

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
4,614
After the Brexit vote, I notice many threads focused on the UK, what's wrong with it, what might happen to it, what it needs to do, the dangers it faces, and on and on.

But relatively little focus on the short-comings of the EU! What needs to happen to the EU in order to prevent the next exit vote? How can it be made truly democratic? What of the bureaucracy? The 'gravy train'. etc. etc.

Should the elected European parliament be radically reformed and given much greater power?

What other major changes need to happen. Who will MAKE them happen?

Or... is the EU perfect, or near perfect? Little needs to change?
 


storybud1

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
6,531
After the Brexit vote, I notice many threads focused on the UK, what's wrong with it, what might happen to it, what it needs to do, the dangers it faces, and on and on.

But relatively little focus on the short-comings of the EU! What needs to happen to the EU in order to prevent the next exit vote? How can it be made truly democratic? What of the bureaucracy? The 'gravy train'. etc. etc.

Should the elected European parliament be radically reformed and given much greater power?

What other major changes need to happen. Who will MAKE them happen?

Or... is the EU perfect, or near perfect? Little needs to change?
Of Course it needs to be reformed, it is utterly nuts that Merkel went off on a solo run, that they tried to interfere in the Ukraine without looking ahead, they are not really thinking ahead of the massive population changes in Africa or the rise of Islam in the EU and that's just one area ?

Brexit lessons are simple, start looking after your own a little more and less of the 3rd world welfare tourism because that puppy will be a monster in the coming years.

It's looking more like disintegrate before Superstate !!

The people that are getting left behind is the key, they don't need more money thrown at them, they need jobs, housing, medical care, an EU that they feel that they belong to and can control more (of course the fooking ruling elite do not want that) they just don't get it , the EU is not a plaything for their legacy or power trips, it has become too arrogant and detached .
 

Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
53,658
Restrictions on movement of people. I don't attach any reverence to some EU canon law about "four freedoms" any more than the Three Stooges or the Two Ronnies
 
D

Deleted member 34656

Restrictions on movement of people. I don't attach any reverence to some EU canon law about "four freedoms" any more than the Three Stooges or the Two Ronnies
The three stooges and the two ronnies are well known and have been for decades.

Never heard of the Four Freedoms before today.

I notice abortion isn't included. Oops.
 

ScoobyDoo

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
923
Of course it will be reformed.

Closer and closer economic and political ties to be forged to make it impossible for any other country to exit.
 

willow68

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Messages
1,856
An immediate quick fix to ameliorate matters is to enable access to social and medical care for EU immigrants only after a period of, say, 4 years. Emergency medical care excepted. Legislate for easier deportation of offenders. Send Merkel to St. Helena. And make all EU mandarins like Juncker sackable due to plebiscite. Then start root and branch reform, and stop Eastern expansion.
 

gleeful

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2016
Messages
7,520
We need to replace the commission with an executive formed of MEPs. We need an EU Prime Minister. The commission becomes a senate.

The reason this never happened before - the reason for the democratic deficit - is Thatcher vetoed it. Now the UK is out of the way the EU can become federal at last.
 

im axeled

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
29,289
to me it seems that the eu is the property of non elected people with their own agenda, who are using the member countrys to implement it
 

gleeful

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2016
Messages
7,520
to me it seems that the eu is the property of non elected people with their own agenda, who are using the member countrys to implement it
The EU has 750 directly elected Members of Parliament - give them executive power.
 

saab900

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2014
Messages
1,093
Or... is the EU perfect, or near perfect? Little needs to change?
What specific reforms are you proposing?

The Treaty of Lisbon instituted major of reform of the EU.

It was opposed tooth and nail by the same people who constantly parrot the line that the EU needs reform.
 

saab900

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2014
Messages
1,093
to me it seems that the eu is the property of non elected people with their own agenda, who are using the member countrys to implement it
The maybe you should inform yourself about how the EU works, rather than confusing yourself with myths and caricatures.
 

willow68

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Messages
1,856
Great. And who will decide what is an emergency and what isn't? Will we have committees of MEPs in A&Es?
How many Romanian citizens claim all manners of Social Welfare payments from Ireland? How many Irish citizens claim Social Welfare payments from Romania? Genuine question, as I do not know. Those in genuine employment throughout the EU make contributions to the pot rather than just piggybacking on other worker's tax contributions. The EU wide abuse of the Social Welfare systems is at the heart of much of the current discontent. Policymakers ignore this at their peril.
 

RasherHash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
24,583
Of Course it needs to be reformed, it is utterly nuts that Merkel went off on a solo run, that they tried to interfere in the Ukraine without looking ahead, they are not really thinking ahead of the massive population changes in Africa or the rise of Islam in the EU and that's just one area ?

Brexit lessons are simple, start looking after your own a little more and less of the 3rd world welfare tourism because that puppy will be a monster in the coming years.

It's looking more like disintegrate before Superstate !!

The people that are getting left behind is the key, they don't need more money thrown at them, they need jobs, housing, medical care, an EU that they feel that they belong to and can control more (of course the fooking ruling elite do not want that) they just don't get it , the EU is not a plaything for their legacy or power trips, it has become too arrogant and detached .
Exactly the sort of attitude that inspired the charity fiasco here is the same mentality that inspires the elite across europe.

Arrogant gimme, gimme, gimme and no concern for the people.
 

irishpatriot

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
384
After the Brexit vote, I notice many threads focused on the UK, what's wrong with it, what might happen to it, what it needs to do, the dangers it faces, and on and on.

But relatively little focus on the short-comings of the EU! What needs to happen to the EU in order to prevent the next exit vote? How can it be made truly democratic? What of the bureaucracy? The 'gravy train'. etc. etc.

Should the elected European parliament be radically reformed and given much greater power?

What other major changes need to happen. Who will MAKE them happen?

Or... is the EU perfect, or near perfect? Little needs to change?
Our government will accept any hardships imposed on our citizens by the EU such as paying for the bank bailout instead of burning bondholders, imposing milk quotas on our farmers,imposing fishing quotas on our fishermen, or even banning us from cutting turf on the boglands or spending money on housing for the homeless, but if they interfere with our corporation tax "they wont see us for dust". That statement by a FG td on the Vincent Brown show last night clearly shows who this government is really looking after!
 

Rocky

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
8,525
After the Brexit vote, I notice many threads focused on the UK, what's wrong with it, what might happen to it, what it needs to do, the dangers it faces, and on and on.

But relatively little focus on the short-comings of the EU! What needs to happen to the EU in order to prevent the next exit vote? How can it be made truly democratic? What of the bureaucracy? The 'gravy train'. etc. etc.

Should the elected European parliament be radically reformed and given much greater power?

What other major changes need to happen. Who will MAKE them happen?

Or... is the EU perfect, or near perfect? Little needs to change?
Of course it's not perfect, nothing is.

However it is what the 27 member states and to a lesser extent the MEP's elected by the European people do with it.

A view has taken hold that the EU is a self thinking entity that is completely separate from the EU people and EU governments, which is total and utter nonsense. As a beginning step the member states need to fight against that view and try to shine more light on the EU.

If the question is should there be more changes to the Treaties I would say no though.
 

Rocky

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
8,525
We need to replace the commission with an executive formed of MEPs. We need an EU Prime Minister. The commission becomes a senate.

The reason this never happened before - the reason for the democratic deficit - is Thatcher vetoed it. Now the UK is out of the way the EU can become federal at last.
It's not. No EU government wants it, partly because they don't want to hand over power they hold, but even so I do not think that the people of Europe would want it.

From the beginning there has been a divide between whether the EU should be a Union of States or a Union of Peoples. At the moment it is a bit of both. However primarily it is still a Union of States. I don't think there is any wish of a majority of the European People to change that, although I think most European people are barely aware of that divide.
 

ibis

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Messages
12,293
Obviously the EU isn't perfect, but it's not likely to be made any better by a bunch of quick-fix 'reforms' in response to an idiotically bad referendum in one member state that was primarily about a leadership contest.
 

saab900

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2014
Messages
1,093
Of course it's not perfect, nothing is.

However it is what the 27 member states and to a lesser extent the MEP's elected by the European people do with it.

A view has taken hold that the EU is a self thinking entity that is completely separate from the EU people and EU governments, which is total and utter nonsense. As a beginning step the member states need to fight against that view and try to shine more light on the EU.

If the question is should there be more changes to the Treaties I would say no though.
The challenge for the EU is to inform, not reform.

The EU institutions are not perfect, but that are lot more democratic and effective that the political institutions in member states.

However, the EU isn't regarded as indispensable, like national institutions, so people are quite happy to project this discontent its direction and call for its abolition etc, in way they would never do in relation to their national institutions (when was the last time you read an Op-Ed piece called for the abolition of the Oireachtas?)

I think those of us who understand the EU need to up our game in counteracting the myths and caricatures which are such common currency in discussions about the EU. One of the main problems is that many of our politicians who are rolled out to defend the EU haven't a clue how it works either.
 

Equinox

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
2,980
How many Romanian citizens claim all manners of Social Welfare payments from Ireland? How many Irish citizens claim Social Welfare payments from Romania? Genuine question, as I do not know. Those in genuine employment throughout the EU make contributions to the pot rather than just piggybacking on other worker's tax contributions. The EU wide abuse of the Social Welfare systems is at the heart of much of the current discontent. Policymakers ignore this at their peril.
The reality is that the wheels came off the project when it over expanded east and the equal access that the EU grants it's citizens to national welfare entitlements made welfare unsustainable and resources over stretched in the richer nations due to the disparity between them and the poorer east.
The ONE reform that would fix the problem would be to grant non citizens PRSI workers access to unemployment benefit linked to the amount of PRSI paid in the nation state. So if you are Irish working in Germany and loose you job, you can claim benefits for a defined period until your contributions run out. But that should be it. No entitlement to social housing or benefits should be permitted to non-citizens under any circumstances. If you can't afford to put a roof over your head, you shouldn't be in the country.
 
Last edited:


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top