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Refuse Collection, "Pay by Weight" or "Franchise Bidding" ?

venusian

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2011
Messages
6,936
Fine Gael And Simon Coveney are trying to force down the throats of irish Citizen's a joke version of pay by weight that already has resulted in major rip-off increases for ordinary decent tax payers and will greatly increase the household cost of waste disposal for everyone.

The last FG/"labour" government had the option to use "Franchise Bidding", a more fair and equitable system (and cheaper for the taxpayer!) for one and all but preferred to inflict an "Irish Water" style rip off on the electorate for refuse collection. The joke "pay by weight" rip-off has now blown up in the governments faces.

What system would P.iesters prefer, the rip off "pay by weight" or a trial of "Franchise Bidding" ?


Government ignored report to cut waste cost | Ireland | The Times & The Sunday Times
"Seán McCárthaigh, in The Times (Ireland edition), reports:

The last government chose to maintain a fully privatised waste collection system, despite an internal report outlining the benefits of an alternative that could have involved less cost for homeowners. Documents from the Department of the Environment, which have been seen by The Times, show that a system involving franchises for each local authority area was found to be more likely to deliver savings to customers four years ago and could have been introduced.

The model, known as “franchise bidding” would still have involved private companies, but they would have had to compete to win fixed tenders for each area in a policy change that would have given the state significant control over the process. …Despite the report’s conclusion the Fine Gael-Labour coalition ultimately backed the recommendation of the Department of Environment that it should maintain the existing structure when moving to the new pay-by-weight system, due to be introduced on July 1.

The decision, ultimately signed off by Phil Hogan, the then environment minister, allows private waste collection firms to continue competing for services in the same areas and included plans for stronger regulation. The new pay-by-weight system has provoked controversy as private companies signalled price hikes for customers ahead of the launch date.

…The decision not to opt for franchise bidding was made following outright opposition by members of the Irish Waste Management Association, which includes companies like Greenstar, Thorntons and Panda, to the franchise bidding model.

The analysis said the non-franchise Irish system of waste collection, which lets private firms compete for business, was “somewhat unique”, noting that its continuation with some extra regulation would “create a unique system of waste management in which the role of the private sector is central.”

“The near wholesale withdrawal of local authorities and the corresponding growth in the role of the private sector was not a policy goal and was not fully anticipated,” it said. Private firms now collect 98 per cent of all household waste in a market estimated to be worth at least €250 million annually."
 


hammer

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
58,513
Pay by weight at fair price per kg for black / brown bins without the annual service charge.
 

olli rehn

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
8,531
Pay by weight at fair price per kg for black / brown bins without the annual service charge.
Would be possible all right. But we are required to finance the lavish lifestyle of the rubbish barons !
 

Catalpast

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
26,197
If the County Councils are the ones charged with ensuring a service in their areas

- are they not legally obliged to see that a Monopoly is not established?
 

Nipper

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
2,550
It was comforting to hear that the Waste Companies will all get together in a room today and discuss what rates they will all charge

Have they made Neary the regulator already
 

midlander12

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Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,753
Is pay by weight (for waste) not the norm? That's been the system where I live for over a decade. Recycling is free (though it's not really since there's also a standing charge) - however it definitely is in one's interest to recycle as much as possible. Of course some people are too lazy and clotty to separate their rubbish and only put out a waste bin, preferring to burn in their back garden or dump in the bog what they could put in the recycling bin for no extra charge. But there's nought as quare as folk and I've long since stopped trying to figure them out.
 

earwicker

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Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
4,743
Is there anything to be said for a return to the old council-collection-your-bins-using-the general-tax-pool-system?
 

an innocent abroad

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
27,685
Fine Gael And Simon Coveney are trying to force down the throats of irish Citizen's a joke version of pay by weight that already has resulted in major rip-off increases for ordinary decent tax payers and will greatly increase the household cost of waste disposal for everyone.

The last FG/"labour" government had the option to use "Franchise Bidding", a more fair and equitable system (and cheaper for the taxpayer!) for one and all but preferred to inflict an "Irish Water" style rip off on the electorate for refuse collection. The joke "pay by weight" rip-off has now blown up in the governments faces.

What system would P.iesters prefer, the rip off "pay by weight" or a trial of "Franchise Bidding" ?


Government ignored report to cut waste cost | Ireland | The Times & The Sunday Times
"Seán McCárthaigh, in The Times (Ireland edition), reports:

The last government chose to maintain a fully privatised waste collection system, despite an internal report outlining the benefits of an alternative that could have involved less cost for homeowners. Documents from the Department of the Environment, which have been seen by The Times, show that a system involving franchises for each local authority area was found to be more likely to deliver savings to customers four years ago and could have been introduced.

The model, known as “franchise bidding” would still have involved private companies, but they would have had to compete to win fixed tenders for each area in a policy change that would have given the state significant control over the process. …Despite the report’s conclusion the Fine Gael-Labour coalition ultimately backed the recommendation of the Department of Environment that it should maintain the existing structure when moving to the new pay-by-weight system, due to be introduced on July 1.

The decision, ultimately signed off by Phil Hogan, the then environment minister, allows private waste collection firms to continue competing for services in the same areas and included plans for stronger regulation. The new pay-by-weight system has provoked controversy as private companies signalled price hikes for customers ahead of the launch date.

…The decision not to opt for franchise bidding was made following outright opposition by members of the Irish Waste Management Association, which includes companies like Greenstar, Thorntons and Panda, to the franchise bidding model?

The analysis said the non-franchise Irish system of waste collection, which lets private firms compete for business, was “somewhat unique”, noting that its continuation with some extra regulation would “create a unique system of waste management in which the role of the private sector is central.”

“The near wholesale withdrawal of local authorities and the corresponding growth in the role of the private sector was not a policy goal and was not fully anticipated,” it said. Private firms now collect 98 per cent of all household waste in a market estimated to be worth at least €250 million annually."



One name. ? HOGAN...Joined FG when he discovered there were already too many gangsters in FF.
 

wombat

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Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,680
We have had pay by weight since Panda took over from the council with an additional charge per lift for the black bin. The green bin is " free", covered by the black bin charge and I compost so don't bother with a brown bin, no complaints but I would be upset by an annual service charge.
 

making waves

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Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
19,321
The solution to this problem is for local councils to engage in a municipal collection of domestic refuse for free and the cost of collecting the rubbish to be paid from general taxation.

You deal with recycling through a policy of collecting domestic waste that is segregated for free and if individuals choose not to segregate their waste then you charge them a segregation fee.

Domestic waste collection, recycling and incineration are all highly profitable commercial activities and the objective of previous governments to impose bin charges was always to facilitate the privatisation of the domestic waste collection system and allow households to be fleeced by private companies. Furthermore, the privatisation of waste collection was designed to facilitate a race to the bottom in terms and wages and working conditions for workers working for these companies.

In the meantime local councils have to be the considerable costs of cleaning up ribbing from flytipping and the massive cost of cleaning up illegal dumps operated by cowboy private contractors running scams facilitated by the privatisation of waste collection.
 

publicrealm

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
6,026
It does seem that anything with a tinge of 'green' credentials is a licence to print money in Ireland.

IW, wind turbines, pay by weight and (coming soon) the solar energy gravytrain.
 

Round tower

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Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
7,090
The question on bin charges, is it that u pay so much to the waste company so much for the year. So if one person puts a 1/2 bin out every week, they pay the same amount as a person who put a full bin out every week, is that the case, so pay by weight should be a good idea.
I don't deal with waste companies as the council tiphead is around 5 miles away, i let the waste build up and every 3 to 4 months i go to the dump, i can put 3 or 4 bags into 1 bag which cost 6.80 per bag, + recycling of paper, cans, plastic bottles, milk cartons and paper cost 3.40. So i pay 17 euros every 3 or 4 months, around 50 to 60 euros a year.
 

APettigrew92

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Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
2,731
In the meantime local councils have to be the considerable costs of cleaning up ribbing from flytipping and the massive cost of cleaning up illegal dumps operated by cowboy private contractors running scams facilitated by the privatisation of waste collection.
I wouldn't mind paying extra for waste in the knowledge that the Employee doing the job is unionized and well-paid.

These profit hikes go straight to management and shareholders. The average Joe-Binman doesn't see his lot improve and has to deal with more belligerent customers head-on.

There is a point at which privitization actually begins to deliver fewer results. The answer to State-run programs that have become a tad bit slow is not necessarily a "private sector overhaul."

We've sold off our oil, our gas, our fisheries, almost sold off our water and now we are realizing that maybe paying a little less short-term to pay a lot more long-term may not have been fiscally prudent.

That gombeen Coveney had the nerve to say that some people saw a reduction in charges.

What a load of tripe. If the standing charge has trebled, how on earth could someone see a reduction? Swill.

He said a lot without saying anything at all. The lad is a Grade A swill spouter.

Hopefully FF remind them how tenuous their rule is.
 

venusian

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2011
Messages
6,936
Is there anything to be said for a return to the old council-collection-your-bins-using-the general-tax-pool-system?
Of course there is but that has to be paid via fair and equitable general taxation. It has been the loony right wing parties like Fianna Gael that want to inflict regressive charges so that the wealthy layabout scroungers protected by Fianna Gael will pay little or no tax but the poorest are forced in proportion to pay the most via regressive "charges"
 

Stentor

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Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
2,173
Incinerate all of it and make energy so that we can produce more waste.

Everyone's a winner.
 

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