Regulatory overkill preventing infill small apartment buildings construction?

Patslatt1

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Regulation is not the cause of expensive housing. Expensive sites are the largest single cost of building in the country. Listen to any commentary on housing costs and you will hear this.

And as we know, apartment prices were sky high without compliance. So your argument falls on its face before it starts.
NIMBYISM blocking quick development or any development caused sky high prices in a rapidly expanding economy. There are two influences on prices, supply and demand. You ignore the influence of rapidly growing demand and the hobbling of supply by NIMBY influenced planning procedures.
 
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Watcher2

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NIMBYISM blocking quick development or any development caused sky high prices in a rapidly expanding economy.
Deflection on a large scale. Your premise was that prices are high because of over regulation. I pointed out to you that those regulatory requirements were not flouted and avoided but yet prices were still sky high.

And then you return with the above. :unsure: :rolleyes:
 

Patslatt1

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We don't need more small buildings. One of the issues noted is that we build too small. We need high rise in the cities.
Infill apartment buildings fill spaces that are unsuitable for high rise buildings. So low rises shouldn't be sidelined.
 

Jim Car

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Deflection on a large scale. Your premise was that prices are high because of over regulation. I pointed out to you that those regulatory requirements were not flouted and avoided but yet prices were still sky high.

And then you return with the above. :unsure: :rolleyes:
The reason prices were high in the period you are referring to when there was a supposed lack or regulation is in fact due to market and property speculation. There was a bubble where the price of house was increasing based on the speculation that they and the land in question would continually rise in value. Rather than them being high due to overregulation. As opposed to now where the main though not the sole reason for prices being high is the overregulation which has massively increased construction costs.

To counter your argument in another way labor during that period was quite cheap in comparison to now, why because there was an adequate supply of it re plumbers’ fitters ect. Now there is a massive shortage and the cost of the skilled labor like plumbers and other fitters is (and I say this from experience) massive. They can pretty much charge what they like due to the current demand for them and this again played a role in increasing prices. Though like I said above it is the regulation that is the primary cause of high prices these days. The comparison you made with former periods is different due to the root causes one being a market driven bubble the other now being government regulation.
 

Patslatt1

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Actually small units could very much help with the current situation.Why not bring back bedsits? I was in a bedsit for two years during college with a very small rent it was perfect for my needs. When they were gotten rid of I had to pay close to four times what I was paying in rent. I needed to borrow from parents and the bank. Can anyone explain to me how that made me and others in a similar position better off? Indeed now I would be happy to by a micro appartment at cheaper rate then a large one I dont need or want a large appartment.
The Greens pushed for the elimination of bedsits. I predicted that the resulting homelessness wouldn't be a problem because the big hearted Greens would take in the homeless into their own homes.
The government should have solved the excessive dependence on bedsits in a modern economy by removing the NIMBY barriers to building housing in the planning procedures.
 

Watcher2

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The reason prices were high in the period you are referring to when there was a supposed lack or regulation is in fact due to market and property speculation. There was a bubble where the price of house was increasing based on the speculation that they and the land in question would continually rise in value. Rather than them being high due to overregulation. As opposed to now where the main though not the sole reason for prices being high is the overregulation which has massively increased construction costs.

To counter your argument in another way labor during that period was quite cheap in comparison to now, why because there was an adequate supply of it re plumbers’ fitters ect. Now there is a massive shortage and the cost of the skilled labor like plumbers and other fitters is (and I say this from experience) massive. They can pretty much charge what they like due to the current demand for them and this again played a role in increasing prices. Though like I said above it is the regulation that is the primary cause of high prices these days. The comparison you made with former periods is different due to the root causes one being a market driven bubble the other now being government regulation.
Did you forget about the site cost? Most dont.

So, taking the reality and your post above, we have three major cost elements in house prices:

site costs
labour costs and
regulation.

Are you saying that regulation is the biggest cost factor? Do you have figures showing the breakdown?
 

Patslatt1

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We compare very well and getting better:

"EASE OF DOING BUSINESS REPORT The World Bank’s Doing Business 2016 report provides an assessment of a range of regulations affecting SMEs throughout their life cycle1 . In the latest report, Ireland is ranked 17 th - an improvement of 2 places from last year."

If you have more up to date data, please provide.
With governments, it's not how good they are but how they rank as the least bad! Take Irish compo claims on car insurance and many workplaces which has made car insurance unaffordable in areas where there is no public transport and has forced many small businesses to close. A high court judge recently awarded a bicycle shop assistant 70,000 euros after she was attacked by a customer because the shop failed to train her on coping with potentially violent customers. Just think of the compo implications of that decision for pubs.
 

Jim Car

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Did you forget about the site cost? Most dont.

So, taking the reality and your post above, we have three major cost elements in house prices:

site costs
labour costs and
regulation.

Are you saying that regulation is the biggest cost factor? Do you have figures showing the breakdown?
The reason I say regulation is the biggest issue is because it makes building a house (once off or a small estate) more expensive than what the house is actually worth and will fetch on the market. This isn’t just a Dublin thing site cost around me are quite cheap in comparision, in my case I actually own the land yet it is prohibitively expensive to build due to the regulatory compliance that I need to go through. One small example is the energy efficiency having to be at the top standard if they allowed it to be one level lower it would massively reduce cost but would have very little impact on the efficiency of the house. That is just one simplified example there are a lot more.
 

Watcher2

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With governments, it's not how good they are but how they rank as the least bad! Take Irish compo claims on car insurance and many workplaces which has made car insurance unaffordable in areas where there is no public transport and has forced many small businesses to close. A high court judge recently awarded a bicycle shop assistant 70,000 euros after she was attacked by a customer because the shop failed to train her on coping with potentially violent customers. Just think of the compo implications of that decision for pubs.
Ummm, OK. Relevance with ease of doing business (which is what you started posting about).
 

Patslatt1

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The reason prices were high in the period you are referring to when there was a supposed lack or regulation is in fact due to market and property speculation. There was a bubble where the price of house was increasing based on the speculation that they and the land in question would continually rise in value. Rather than them being high due to overregulation. As opposed to now where the main though not the sole reason for prices being high is the overregulation which has massively increased construction costs.

To counter your argument in another way labor during that period was quite cheap in comparison to now, why because there was an adequate supply of it re plumbers’ fitters ect. Now there is a massive shortage and the cost of the skilled labor like plumbers and other fitters is (and I say this from experience) massive. They can pretty much charge what they like due to the current demand for them and this again played a role in increasing prices. Though like I said above it is the regulation that is the primary cause of high prices these days. The comparison you made with former periods is different due to the root causes one being a market driven bubble the other now being government regulation.
Snobbery towards building trades has drastically cut apprenticeships and driven up wages. I joked with a building tradesman that plumbers and electricians would eventually become as scarce as brain surgeons.
 

Jim Car

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Snobbery towards building trades has drastically cut apprenticeships and driven up wages. I joked with a building tradesman that plumbers and electricians would eventually become as scarce as brain surgeons.
They are certainly making hay at the moment. I often wondered why I bothered with law and the various traineeships when i looked at what some of those guys were making. Easy to say now, I know it is changing and will be more favourable re earnings potential in the future but how people aren’t being pushed more aggressively into these trades based purely on the argument that you can earn a really good living and avoid the debt and in many case the uselessness of a university degree baffles me.
 

Watcher2

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They are certainly making hay at the moment. I often wondered why I bothered with law and the various traineeships when i looked at what some of those guys were making. Easy to say now, I know it is changing and will be more favourable re earnings potential in the future but how people aren’t being pushed more aggressively into these trades based purely on the argument that you can earn a really good living and avoid the debt and in many case the uselessness of a university degree baffles me.
STEM is the agenda for today. They need to push more women into STEM to appease the agenda filled politicians and policy makers. No room for anything else.
 

Patslatt1

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STEM is the agenda for today. They need to push more women into STEM to appease the agenda filled politicians and policy makers. No room for anything else.
A lot of engineering and computer workers generate work for other workers in the field as regional and global specialisations develop in industry niches.
 


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