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Rejoining Commonwealth in return for a United Ireland

Dame_Enda

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Would Southern Irish people be willing to rejoin the Commonwealth as part of a deal to get a United Ireland by consent?

While not a fan of the Commonwealth, I would consider it.

Also same question to NI Catholics and Protestants.
 


runwiththewind

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No.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Nope. Why get into a bargaining conversation when there are other dynamics in play which would deliver what you want anyway?
 

petaljam

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Personally I wouldn't care in the slightest if a vote went that way, but I really don't see any point to joining the Commonwealth. I think it's an idea whose day has long gone.

I don't think the British care enough about it themselves these days to make it a condition and it would not be a sufficient "concession" to satisfy unionist objections anyway. For the same reason: the Commonwealth doesn't even figure on most people's radars these days.
 

runwiththewind

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Personally I wouldn't care in the slightest if a vote went that way, but I really don't see any point to joining the Commonwealth. I think it's an idea whose day has long gone.

I don't think the British care enough about it themselves these days to make it a condition and it would not be a sufficient "concession" to satisfy unionist objections anyway. For the same reason: the Commonwealth doesn't even figure on most people's radars these days.

As Boris said, commonwealth members are flag waving picannies.

He's not wrong.
 

petaljam

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As Boris said, commonwealth members are flag waving picannies.

He's not wrong.
I disagree with the sentiment, but his opinion does seem to express quite well just how much many British despise the whole idea of the Commonwealth themselves.
 

raetsel

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Would Southern Irish people be willing to rejoin the Commonwealth as part of a deal to get a United Ireland by consent?

While not a fan of the Commonwealth, I would consider it.

Also same question to NI Catholics and Protestants.
It's not even relevant. Opponents of a united Ireland in NI, i.e. unionists, would not be remotely swayed by the offer of re-joining the Commonwealth as part of any unity deal. The Commonwealth is a talking shop which doesn't seem to do very much, or offer any benefits, so what would be the attraction for nationalists? I have no strong feelings about the Commonwealth and if it helped to bring about a united Ireland, it would be a worthwhile compromise, but it won't.
 

recedite

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The Commonwealth Games is probably the most relevant part of it to the average Nordie. Being denied access to the games would be one more disadvantage to joining a UI.
On the other hand, gaining access would be one slight advantage to those in RoI.
Its only a sporting event, but following sport is a very tangible thing for the average Joe Bloggs.
Other than that, there is no real advantage or disadvantage to membership.
 

runwiththewind

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I disagree with the sentiment, but his opinion does seem to express quite well just how much many British despise the whole idea of the Commonwealth themselves.
I see it differently. The British support the commonwealth but despise its flag waving members. It's hard to respect countries who were plundered and raped but still hang around.
 

runwiththewind

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The Commonwealth Games is probably the most relevant part of it to the average Nordie. Being denied access to the games would be one more disadvantage to joining a UI.
On the other hand, gaining access would be one slight advantage to those in RoI.
Its only a sporting event, but following sport is a very tangible thing for the average Joe Bloggs.
Other than that, there is no real advantage or disadvantage to membership.
Apart from having to watch our elected president having to walk behind an unelected monarch. Or having the monarchy handing out even more useless gongs and titles to our citizens

Time we put an end to that and be like Canada. Any Canadian citizen accepting a gong or title must requlinquish their Canadian citizenship.

Same for the Royal titles in Ireland, time they were changed, like the RDS, RoyalvIrish Academy, etc,etc, etc.

We are supposed to be a republic.
 

recedite

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Time we put an end to that and be like Canada. Any Canadian citizen accepting a gong or title must requlinquish their Canadian citizenship.

Same for the Royal titles in Ireland, time they were changed, like the RDS, RoyalvIrish Academy, etc,etc, etc.

We are supposed to be a republic.
You can be a republic and still keep historical names. Same as the name of a hospital doesn't necessarily have to change when it is no longer staffed by nuns.

BTW the first ever Commonwealth Games was held in Canada in 1930, and they haven't missed any since.
There is no problem for a republic to be signed up to the commonwealth.
If anything its a recognition of some shared history and heritage between the nations. Certainly there is that between Ireland, Britain Canada and Australia.
Whatever about some of the flag waving piccaninnies... perhaps less of a connection there.
Twice the shine, in half the time.
 

owedtojoy

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Would Southern Irish people be willing to rejoin the Commonwealth as part of a deal to get a United Ireland by consent?

While not a fan of the Commonwealth, I would consider it.

Also same question to NI Catholics and Protestants.
I would consider it as a part of a settlement, but now with any great enthusiasm.

As a quid pro quo, I do not think it would work. Unionists just would not be impressed - what is the point of being in the Commonwealth when your Head of State is a Free Stater, maybe even a Sinn Feiner? The Unionists would not feel part of the British "family", and they would be probably right.

There would need to be a lot more in the package for it to be attractive to Unionists. And I do not think it ever would be.
 

owedtojoy

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You can be a republic and still keep historical names. Same as the name of a hospital doesn't necessarily have to change when it is no longer staffed by nuns.

BTW the first ever Commonwealth Games was held in Canada in 1930, and they haven't missed any since.
There is no problem for a republic to be signed up to the commonwealth.
If anything its a recognition of some shared history and heritage between the nations. Certainly there is that between Ireland, Britain Canada and Australia.
Whatever about some of the flag waving piccaninnies... perhaps less of a connection there.
Twice the shine, in half the time.
Ironically, De Valera proposed something like the modern Commonwealth to the British in 1921, in what is called Document No 2. Ireland would be part of a collection of nations with the British Monarch at its Head, rather than pledge Allegiance directly to the Monarch. This is was India elected to do in 1948, but Dev was ahead of his time.

The British Commonwealth is now mostly an emotional and traditional bond, as far as I can see, though Nigel Farage seems to think that the old "Commonwealth economic preference" can be revived after Brexit. Most experts in International Trade think that is just spoof.
 

recedite

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Ironically, De Valera proposed something like the modern Commonwealth to the British in 1921, in what is called Document No 2. Ireland would be part of a collection of nations with the British Monarch at its Head, rather than pledge Allegiance directly to the Monarch.
Dev was a clever operator. The role of the "Head" in this context could have been similar to that of a chairperson, not a monarch as such (despite her being an actual monarch in the context of the UK)
In that sense, Dev was introducing the idea of a diminution to the role of the monarchy.

And this is exactly how the role of monarch within the commonwealth evolved over time. Such that it became possible for other nations to become a full republic while remaining in the commonwealth.
 

runwiththewind

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You can be a republic and still keep historical names. Same as the name of a hospital doesn't necessarily have to change when it is no longer staffed by nuns.

BTW the first ever Commonwealth Games was held in Canada in 1930, and they haven't missed any since.
There is no problem for a republic to be signed up to the commonwealth.
If anything its a recognition of some shared history and heritage between the nations. Certainly there is that between Ireland, Britain Canada and Australia.
Whatever about some of the flag waving piccaninnies... perhaps less of a connection there.
Twice the shine, in half the time.

They can keep their names without my tax money supporting them.
Shared history suggests a benevolent relationship. Our history was and is no such thing.
 

Dame_Enda

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After some reflection I think if a UI were granted first, I would reluctantly go along with rejoining Commonwealth.
 

DJP

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I would no way be in favour of joining the Commonwealth. Newton Emerson had an interesting column in The IT in recent months saying that it would be much more persuasive to Unionists in NI in terms of uniting Ireland if Ireland joined NATO. I wouldn't be in favour of us joining NATO either though while a phobia of Russia under Putin exists in it.
 

death or glory

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After some reflection I think if a UI were granted first, I would reluctantly go along with rejoining Commonwealth.
A few other concessions as well please,
Can we please keep the Geographical entity British isles, the city and County Londonderry, and please refer to the previously occupied 6 counties as Ulster.
What about the Angelus, is it up for negotiation as well?
 

DJP

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A few other concessions as well please,
Can we please keep the Geographical entity British isles, the city and County Londonderry, and please refer to the previously occupied 6 counties as Ulster.
What about the Angelus, is it up for negotiation as well?
In your dreams.
 


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