Remarks by Fr.Reid in Presbyterian Church Belfast

rockofcashel

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BarryW said:
rockofcashel said:
.......... is to offer solace to the worst type of sectarian nonsense
Is referring to Protestants as Nazis not a wee-bit sectarian, in your opinion?!
If you bother to actually find out what was said, which is your forte I suppose, imagining what you believe was said, rather than the truth, you will see that Fr. Reid spoke of the Unionist system behaving towards Catholics, along similar lines to how the Nazi's behaved towards the Jews.

This manifested itself in ...

denial of educational opportunities...

denial of employment opportunities ...

denial of the vote, thereby denying a political means of solving the inequity,

denial of other basic human rights, such as the right to live in safety...

I have no problem with Protestants and I despise sectarianism, from whatever community it comes from ... but I am not prepared to pretend that certain things did not happen ....

If you ignore history, you will be condemned to repeat it .....

Or Barry, are you willing to forget what happened with the IRA for 30 years and embrace Republicanism
 


RBinge

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Has anyone got a transcript of the meeting? I'd be very interested to read what Willie Frazer said to provoke Fr. Reid into his comments. Frazer has had a lot of close friends and family killed in the Troubles and as a result the whole approach of his FAIR organisation is that the only innocent victims of the Troubles are Unionists.

I note that a few days ago Paisley and Co. made a point of insultingly referring to "Mr." Reid. If the term "Father" for a Clergyman is unacceptable to evangelical Protestants surely they should have used "The Reverend" as his title and have a bit of bloody manners about themselves. "Mr." as the title of a clergyman is only correct when referring to evangelical clergymen. "Father" is appropriate for Catholic and Orthodox priests and those Anglican priests who choose to use the title.
 

SPN

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BarryW said:
SPN said:
Unfortunately the revisionists have painted the Provos as the bad guys, conveniently forgetting the events, including Pogroms, that caused them to come into being
Ah yes - the "causes of crime" theory.

New Labour would be glad to have you on board :roll:

Causes of Crime?

The Provos weren't the crime, they were the response to the crime.

30 years later and we have civil rights and democracy in NI.

Would we have it without the Provos?

Very unlikely!
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Has anyone got a transcript of the meeting? I'd be very interested to read what Willie Frazer said to provoke Fr. Reid into his comments. Frazer has had a lot of close friends and family killed in the Troubles and as a result the whole approach of his FAIR organisation is that the only innocent victims of the Troubles are Unionists.

I note that a few days ago Paisley and Co. made a point of insultingly referring to "Mr." Reid. If the term "Father" for a Clergyman is unacceptable to evangelical Protestants surely they should have used "The Reverend" as his title and have a bit of bloody manners about themselves. "Mr." as the title of a clergyman is only correct when referring to evangelical clergymen. "Father" is appropriate for Catholic and Orthodox priests and those Anglican priests who choose to use the title.
Well Frazer was claiming that the Clonard monastery was linked to the IRA. He said that Catholics had "butchered" Protestants, and that shots had been fired from Clonard monastery and that Clonard monastery priests had praised the IRA as "war heroes" at funerals.
 

watch-this-drive

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SPN said:
30 years later and we have civil rights and democracy in NI.

Would we have it without the Provos?

Very unlikely!
What is unlikely about it with tireless souls like John Hume working up there?
Did Martin Luther King or Ghandi need to bomb children to achieve even more difficult civil rights and democratic successes?
Cop on
 

JCSkinner

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It mightn't soothe many furrowed brows in the South, or ease Unionist concerns about the IRA decommissioning in the North, but the fact is Fr Reid speaks the truth and ought to be commended for it.
Great to see all the mealy-mouthed middle-class Free Staters spitting their muesli in horror at this comment.
Sorry to ruin your brekfast lads, but that was the way it was for the second class citizens in the Protestant state for the Protestant people.
 

SPN

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watch-this-drive said:
SPN said:
30 years later and we have civil rights and democracy in NI.

Would we have it without the Provos?

Very unlikely!
What is unlikely about it with tireless souls like John Hume working up there?
Did Martin Luther King or Ghandi need to bomb children to achieve even more difficult civil rights and democratic successes?
Cop on
John Hume wasn't very effective on Bloody Sunday. He wasn't very effective when Catholics were being burned out of their homes and heading South as refugees.

If the IRA hadn't hit the Grand Hotel in Brighton John Hume would still be as effective as he was up to that day.

John may have spoken gently, but he had someone else standing behind him with a big stick. It was only when the stick was aimed at the correct target that the British Government started paying attention.

I'll ignore your childish "bombing children" comment.
 

watch-this-drive

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SPN said:
John Hume wasn't very effective on Bloody Sunday. He wasn't very effective when Catholics were being burned out of their homes and heading South as refugees.
Were the IRA?

SPN said:
If the IRA hadn't hit the Grand Hotel in Brighton John Hume would still be as effective as he was up to that day.
Do you think civil rights achievement can only come at the end of the barrel of a gun?

SPN said:
John may have spoken gently, but he had someone else standing behind him with a big stick.
That stick has been turned on the SDLP often enough btw


SPN said:
I'll ignore your childish "bombing children" comment.
Why? Do you think it is irrelevant to your the history of the IRA's successes?
 

pluralist

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watch-this-drive said:
What is unlikely about it with tireless souls like John Hume working up there?
Did Martin Luther King or Ghandi need to bomb children to achieve even more difficult civil rights and democratic successes?
Cop on
Interesting that you're now coming over all hippyish and pacifist. Remind me now, was it the IRA that invaded Iraq?
 

Libero

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The priest's comments were extreme hyperbole, and very bad history. Whatever about unionists, Europe's surviving Jewry deserves a bit better than to have their horror dropped into an angry priest's ramble. And the rest of us deserve better than to have to listen to a man of God proving Godwin's law. Don't these boyos study theology at the seminary? Wouldn't a comparison with the Roman oppression of the Israelites have been more apt, and more likely to strike a note with actual Protestants?

There is one funny thing about this... as Provisional republicans ramp up their criticism of all things unionist to even greater heights (and more personal and ethnic in its descriptions), it may dawn on them that they have signed up to a political settlement where the only route to a united Ireland is through consent - meaning that at least some of those unionists are going to have stop being unionists.

If DOD's and rockofcashel's comments are type of thing that unionists can expect to hear more of, then Sinn Féin have been very stupid indeed. Waffle about 'stepping stones' aside, the Provos have dropped their arms for consent, but are now making consent seem further away than ever.

Unless Malachi O'Doherty is right and the real aim of the Provos isn't powersharing but to make NI ungovernable.
 

newFF

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DOD said:
Johnny said:
The truth hurts.........
Exactly. People are far too obsessed these days with appeasing unionists. The state they fostered carefully was a sectarian little sh1thole which was, on a smaller scale similar to Nazi Germany. It is about time we stopped handling unionists with pet gloves.
" I want to speak directly to the Unionists. Some Unionists say that we do not comprehend or appreciate the effects of the last 25 years on them. We do. Or at least some of us do. Or we are trying to and we are also trying to reach out because we who have suffered do understand your sense of hurt. When Irish republicans talk about British interference and the British presence we do not mean the Unionist section of our people. We want to make peace with unionists, to work with Unionists so that when we collectively reach the end of our journey we will be able to accommodate and celebrate our diversity as equals. "
 

watch-this-drive

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pluralist said:
watch-this-drive said:
What is unlikely about it with tireless souls like John Hume working up there?
Did Martin Luther King or Ghandi need to bomb children to achieve even more difficult civil rights and democratic successes?
Cop on
Interesting that you're now coming over all hippyish and pacifist. Remind me now, was it the IRA that invaded Iraq?
Im just talking about other possibilities that SPN claims are very unlikely and giving examples of similar peaceful achievements - isnt that kind of like pluralism or do you understand the word?
 

FutureTaoiseach

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There is one funny thing about this... as Provisional republicans ramp up their criticism of all things unionist to even greater heights (and more personal and ethnic in its descriptions), it may dawn on them that they have signed up to a political settlement where the only route to a united Ireland is through consent - meaning that at least some of those unionists are going to have stop being unionists.
Or for a Nationalist majority to emerge and for a sufficient % of them to vote Yes such that the overall result in NI is a Yes.
 

ChrIreland

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civic_critic said:
If you had been one of the 3000 men, women and children living in Springtown camp on the edge of Derry during the 50's and 60's, comparisons with the early days of the Warsaw ghetto may have made sense to you.
The laws that the nazis progressively made against jews throughout the 30's may also be suggestive of the attitudes and structures of northern society. There's more to the nazis manner of dealing with the jews than the 'Final Solution'.

Incidentally, i recently read of Heath's and his advisor's version of the 'Final Solution' - secret papers apparently reveal that they considered resettling half a million caholics and protestants along lines more suitable to themselves. Link here:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/jan2003/ire-j11.shtml
I can empathize with you, but, Fr Reid's words should have been a bit more moderate. I have no doubt that the unionists were pure pigs and some have still not changed. Fr Reid has done much to bring about at least 2 ceasefires and his remarks should be taken in that context. HE knows the unionists and how they behaved, and now behave not wanting to share power with anyone.
 

ChrIreland

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JCSkinner said:
It mightn't soothe many furrowed brows in the South, or ease Unionist concerns about the IRA decommissioning in the North, but the fact is Fr Reid speaks the truth and ought to be commended for it.
Great to see all the mealy-mouthed middle-class Free Staters spitting their muesli in horror at this comment.
Sorry to ruin your brekfast lads, but that was the way it was for the second class citizens in the Protestant state for the Protestant people.
Thank you JC.........we have crossed swords a bit...................... but you are an honourable man, and I respect your convictions. I know you lived there and so did I....................and FR Reid IS correct in what he says. Bravo.
 

ChrIreland

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FutureTaoiseach said:
There is one funny thing about this... as Provisional republicans ramp up their criticism of all things unionist to even greater heights (and more personal and ethnic in its descriptions), it may dawn on them that they have signed up to a political settlement where the only route to a united Ireland is through consent - meaning that at least some of those unionists are going to have stop being unionists.
Or for a Nationalist majority to emerge and for a sufficient % of them to vote Yes such that the overall result in NI is a Yes.
Yes, Taoiseach................... the nationalists will ultimately have an overall majority, and, that will resolve the whole UI issue........................unless Paisley and his lot will not accept the will of the majority. Then it is safe to assume that many of his lot voted for the GFA and apparently he now wants them to opt out.
 

rockofcashel

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Libero said:
If DOD's and rockofcashel's comments are type of thing that unionists can expect to hear more of, then Sinn Féin have been very stupid indeed. Waffle about 'stepping stones' aside, the Provos have dropped their arms for consent, but are now making consent seem further away than ever.
What "rockofcashel" won't do Libero, is tell lies... or pretend that things that did happen, didn't, simply to salve the consciences of Unionists like Jeffery Donanldson or Gregory Campbell, or south of the Border, anti-Republicans, like BarryW or the likes of yourself.

I've stated before and will state again, I despise sectarianism, and I have never practiced it, but I won't take lectures from the likes of you, Barry, MJ, True or whoever else, who trys to convince me that certain things never happened, when I not only know they happened, but lived through some of them personally.

Draw a line under the past and move on, fair enough. But don't pretend it didn't happen.

Or would you suggest the Jews shut up about Auschitz, and get on with it too
 

ChrIreland

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civic_critic said:
Kissing the rear-end of unionists has hardly been a stunningly successful strategy in the past. Let those who feel like doing so express themselves according to their lights. Let the chips fall where they may.
I agree, civic........holding the unionists hands is not going to work. It is time that THEY also accepted their responsubilities and their past. But the apologists here in the South will not want that to come out...........for it changes the unionist "character" and shows that either one stood up or lay down.
 

duff

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SPN said:
BarryW said:
SPN said:
Unfortunately the revisionists have painted the Provos as the bad guys, conveniently forgetting the events, including Pogroms, that caused them to come into being
Ah yes - the "causes of crime" theory.

New Labour would be glad to have you on board :roll:

Causes of Crime?

The Provos weren't the crime, they were the response to the crime.

30 years later and we have civil rights and democracy in NI.

Would we have it without the Provos?

Very unlikely!
Ah I forgot the PIRA have been rebranded as an armed civil rights movement.
 

ChrIreland

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BarryW said:
DOD said:
People are far too obsessed these days with appeasing unionists. The state they fostered carefully was a sectarian little sh1thole which was, on a smaller scale similar to Nazi Germany. It is about time we stopped handling unionists with pet gloves.
So much for promoting peace and reconciliation.......ey, DOD :roll:
And so, Barry................of course it is correct that we should apologise for our past......................and the Unionists had no part in it!!!!! They should be commended for their vote rigging, discrimation against housing, schools etc for Catholics, murder, burning out of Catholics, job discrimination.......come on Barry......................at least be honest.
 


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