Remember the "democratic revolution"? Seanad reform postponed!

hurling_lad

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The active power for reform is in the Dáil. There is an important role for the Séanad that can be realised with a bit of thought and effort. It might raise the standards of conduct and performance for the Oireachtas as a whole though.
All of the thought and effort available for political reform (and there's not much of either on offer from our politicians) should be focussed on Dail reform, not Seanad reform.
 


shiel

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I really don't get what's so difficult to understand about it.

The government wants abolition, some people want reform, so the government makes sure they aren't presented with that option, so that some of them will choose the lesser of two evils.

Doing so simply plays into the government's hands.

The option I wanted wasn't presented to me, so I voted to thwart the government's preference. Doing so avoids giving them more of an incentive to try to bully voters in future. Not that it will make a blind bit of difference, of course.
The Seanad is irreformable. You either have another Dail or you have a powerless talking shop for the insider elite and their cronies.

Reform proposals want to make the Seanad into another Dail but with voters from Northern Ireland and emigrants, neither of whom contribute anything in taxes, deciding what policies are followed.

We cannot afford either in this recently bankrupt country.
 

Mercurial

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The Seanad is irreformable. You either have another Dail or you have a powerless talking shop for the insider elite and their cronies.

Reform proposals want to make the Seanad into another Dail but with voters from Northern Ireland and emigrants, neither of whom contribute anything in taxes, deciding what policies are followed.

We cannot afford either in this recently bankrupt country.
Second chambers perform useful functions all over the world. There's no reason they can't do the same here.
 

shiel

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Second chambers perform useful functions all over the world. There's no reason they can't do the same here.
Many democracies have no second chambers and they survive quite well.

Ireland has more politicians at national level than many of its European neighbours of similar size.

The Seanad is not needed.

We could use the money saved to fund health or homeless or whatever policies you think.

It is not hard to think of more deserving policies than giving an expensive talking shop to the insiders.
 

Peppermint

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That's not a numbers problem, though: it's a sh*t politicians problem.
No it's a systems problem.
Our local 'democracy' is basically non existent.
Local reps have powers, none of which have any immediate effect on anything locally.
But the county manager system basically rips the heart out of local democracy.
And having the misfortune to meet a few county managers, they've done very well for themselves, but I couldn't get from one of them who they felt they were accountable to?
 

Peppermint

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That simply isn't true.

It doesn't follow from the fact that the amendment was rejected that a majority want to retain the status quo. All that follows is that a majority of those who voted didn't want it abolished.
But that is how it has been read.
And if you expected otherwise, well you really need to get out more..
 


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