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Remember the NCHD shortage??...


spidermom

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Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
9,189
HSE could face new legal threat


Oh dear GOD!!!


The HSE "may" have reneged on contracts.....
MANY of the doctors (recruited)"failed" the requisite examinations...
These "doctors" (who are qualified in there own countries...lest we forget) have been left high and dry!!




Lest we forget folks...this is NOT a new story...and only likely to get worse!!


This thread(courtesy of another mod...feel free BTW) maybe/should be merged with any of the other threads re NCHD shortages...or perhaps on the threads relating to graduate nurses "refusing" less than normal contract wages.


....Discuss........!!
 

spidermom

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storybud1

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Oct 25, 2011
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Is it so fooking hard to offer medical school places to young Irish kids ? 100 to 150K per year salary / 40 hour week / opportunity to specialize and the shortage will be solved.

The vested interests in this Country make me sick, being a doctor is just a fooking job, it is not particle physics or fighter pilot training. The sooner we start doing the simple things for ourselves the better.
 

zzzdr

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Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
1,682
Is it so fooking hard to offer medical school places to young Irish kids ? 100 to 150K per year salary / 40 hour week / opportunity to specialize and the shortage will be solved.

The vested interests in this Country make me sick, being a doctor is just a fooking job, it is not particle physics or fighter pilot training. The sooner we start doing the simple things for ourselves the better.
Medicine is actually quite difficult.
 

Prester Jim

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Jul 3, 2009
Messages
10,071
Is it so fooking hard to offer medical school places to young Irish kids ? 100 to 150K per year salary / 40 hour week / opportunity to specialize and the shortage will be solved.

The vested interests in this Country make me sick, being a doctor is just a fooking job, it is not particle physics or fighter pilot training. The sooner we start doing the simple things for ourselves the better.
They are just jobs too.

I agree with you about entry being too narrow but it is definitely a special kind of job.
We need to double (or more) the intake of Irish students and give them opportunities for further training.
It might be a good idea to look at other parameters beside LC 600 points for entry too, I have dealt with plenty of empathic docs who listened and understood, also 1 or 2 who were not empathic.
I am guessing that there will always be people who will emigrate for better pay elsewhere (as in all professions including mine) but if we actually give the docs a proper career path, standard hours and opportunity for advancement and training most will stay here.

While we do rely on docs trained abroad we need to grade the universities and qualifications they carry rigourously. Not all universities or medical degrees are the same and we need to act in a steady manner or we may regret it.
 

Prester Jim

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
10,071
HSE could face new legal threat


Oh dear GOD!!!


The HSE "may" have reneged on contracts.....
MANY of the doctors (recruited)"failed" the requisite examinations...
These "doctors" (who are qualified in there own countries...lest we forget) have been left high and dry!!




Lest we forget folks...this is NOT a new story...and only likely to get worse!!


This thread(courtesy of another mod...feel free BTW) maybe/should be merged with any of the other threads re NCHD shortages...or perhaps on the threads relating to graduate nurses "refusing" less than normal contract wages.


....Discuss........!!
They should be compensated for their time and given business class flight home.
It is a sign of gross incompetence that whoever decided on this route didn't test the candidate first at home before they picked up their lives and moved here.
Someone should lose their job or at the very least should have their pay docked to return some of the money lost in compensating these docs.
Why do we test these doctors?
Surely the obvious course is to examine the quality of their university, the strength of the medical degree and if they are both good enough let them work or don't if they are substandard.

In this case, as we had to train them ourselves at great cost, they should have been sent home (or better yet not brought over).
At the very least I hope we will not ever be taking more graduates from the universities they attended.
It is obvious they are offering substandard doctors.
We have an elite standard here, why should we export those and take in the thrift version and pay extra to bring them up to standard?
 

Ulster-Lad

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Oct 26, 2006
Messages
10,092
They should be compensated for their time and given business class flight home.
It is a sign of gross incompetence that whoever decided on this route didn't test the candidate first at home before they picked up their lives and moved here.
Someone should lose their job or at the very least should have their pay docked to return some of the money lost in compensating these docs.
Why do we test these doctors?
Surely the obvious course is to examine the quality of their university, the strength of the medical degree and if they are both good enough let them work or don't if they are substandard.


In this case, as we had to train them ourselves at great cost, they should have been sent home (or better yet not brought over).
At the very least I hope we will not ever be taking more graduates from the universities they attended.
It is obvious they are offering substandard doctors.
We have an elite standard here, why should we export those and take in the thrift version and pay extra to bring them up to standard?
They are tested for a working knowledge of the English language. Also you might recall the case of the 'Doctor' in Donegal that was struck off recently?

DODGY LETTERKENNY DOCTOR STRUCK OFF | Donegal Daily

I agree though, they should be tested at the nearest Irish embassy prior to coming to Ireland then a visa issued. Worst case send a small medical team to the country in question for testing purposes.
 

Prester Jim

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Jul 3, 2009
Messages
10,071
They are tested for a working knowledge of the English language. Also you might recall the case of the 'Doctor' in Donegal that was struck off recently?

DODGY LETTERKENNY DOCTOR STRUCK OFF | Donegal Daily

I agree though, they should be tested at the nearest Irish embassy prior to coming to Ireland then a visa issued. Worst case send a small medical team to the country in question for testing purposes.
I hadn't seen that, I am stunned any medical school in the world let a doctor who couldn't take a pulse graduate.
I have been getting check ups every 4 months then every 6 months recently after I had cancer so I have had a fair experience of docs as the consultant oncologist is rarely there.
My most recent guy brought me in and told me the results of the bloods and CT scan (well the CT scan wasn't read yet) and then asked me as always to drop the troosers and get up for a testicle exam (as the original cancer was testicular this is standard for the remaining one).
I have been examined about 20 times I would say and they have all rotated the testicle in their hands to check for lumps, this chap barely touched me, didn't ask any of the questions the others always do and I was out of there in no time.
At the moment I left I wasn't in the least bothered as the blood test was good and I was happy to get out of there but looking back he was definitely not doing the same as the others.
They all had the same routine and he didn't follow it.
My impression was he was repulsed by physical examination (and I work out).
Just stuck out because all the others were 100% professional and he was like the lazy office guy who slips his paperwork into someone elses desk.
It could have been a bad day for him I suppose but Docs aren't allowed bad days that mean skipping vital examinations.
I just cannot see a serious 600 LC Irish student doing that.
If African Unis are selecting on different criteria; money or influence rather than excellence we shouldn't be hiring the docs from there.
 

SayItAintSo

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Joined
Sep 30, 2011
Messages
11,349
I hadn't seen that, I am stunned any medical school in the world let a doctor who couldn't take a pulse graduate.
I have been getting check ups every 4 months then every 6 months recently after I had cancer so I have had a fair experience of docs as the consultant oncologist is rarely there.
My most recent guy brought me in and told me the results of the bloods and CT scan (well the CT scan wasn't read yet) and then asked me as always to drop the troosers and get up for a testicle exam (as the original cancer was testicular this is standard for the remaining one).
I have been examined about 20 times I would say and they have all rotated the testicle in their hands to check for lumps, this chap barely touched me, didn't ask any of the questions the others always do and I was out of there in no time.
At the moment I left I wasn't in the least bothered as the blood test was good and I was happy to get out of there but looking back he was definitely not doing the same as the others.
They all had the same routine and he didn't follow it.
My impression was he was repulsed by physical examination (and I work out).
Just stuck out because all the others were 100% professional and he was like the lazy office guy who slips his paperwork into someone elses desk.
It could have been a bad day for him I suppose but Docs aren't allowed bad days that mean skipping vital examinations.
I just cannot see a serious 600 LC Irish student doing that.
If African Unis are selecting on different criteria; money or influence rather than excellence we shouldn't be hiring the docs from there.
I'm glad you're in recovery and things are going well. I just wanted to say if you're not happy with how things are done on your next visit speak up. Don't leave the exam room feeling the check up wasn't thorough.

I have a relation going through the same thing and they're afraid to say boo to the reg or whoever is doing the check up. I'm constantly at them to speak up. I doubt you're of the same frame of mind but just wanted to emphasise it and to anyone else who's in a similar position.

The Drs are only human but I don't want my relation to be the one that something gets missed on because the Dr is having a bad day.
 

opinions

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Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
648
Medicine is actually quite difficult.
Not if you have a good memory, which medicine is all about. You could be as thick as a plank and still qualify if you had a good memory. However even if you where an Einstein but had poor memory you haven't a hope. This explains why there are so many thick doctors who are socially inept and totally incompetent infecting our so called health care system.
 

damus

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Jun 28, 2011
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Didn't the medical council warn the HSE that it was illadvisable to bring them over without first ensuring that they fulfilled the regulatory requirements?
 

zzzdr

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Apr 22, 2010
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Not if you have a good memory, which medicine is all about. You could be as thick as a plank and still qualify if you had a good memory. However even if you where an Einstein but had poor memory you haven't a hope. This explains why there are so many thick doctors who are socially inept and totally incompetent infecting our so called health care system.
It's not all about having a good memory, like any career it's about applying knowledge to a particular problem.

There are very few incompetent doctors. There are plenty of pi?sed off, tired, underpaid and soon to be emigrant doctors though.
 

zzzdr

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Apr 22, 2010
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Didn't the medical council warn the HSE that it was illadvisable to bring them over without first ensuring that they fulfilled the regulatory requirements?
They did, but I guess the HSE knew better.
 

damus

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They did, but I guess the HSE knew better.
Sure, Barry O'Brien was also advised that confining the scheme for nurses to new graduates who are currently registered with ABA and who obtained their qualifications in Ireland was contrary to EU law on free movement, the rules that govern the internal market, and the laws around the mutual recognition of qualifications. They were also told that it was age discriminatory against older nurses, and the written response from O'Brien's office basically said that it was basically too late to start devising a whole new scheme. There was an article in the SBP by Paul Gallagher about it on March 10th.
 

spidermom

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Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
9,189
SIGH...it would appear the HSE always know better!!....:-(
Sure, Barry O'Brien was also advised that confining the scheme for nurses to new graduates who are currently registered with ABA and who obtained their qualifications in Ireland was contrary to EU law on free movement, the rules that govern the internal market, and the laws around the mutual recognition of qualifications. They were also told that it was age discriminatory against older nurses, and the written response from O'Brien's office basically said that it was basically too late to start devising a whole new scheme. There was an article in the SBP by Paul Gallagher about it on March 10th.
 
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