Remind me: where exactly is Armaggedon?

Malcolm Redfellow

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My e-mail inbox compasses some very odd stuff. Some of it quite welcome.

So I receive notification that a colourised copy of Jacobus Tirinus' Chorographia Terrae Sanctae in angustiorem formam redacta et ex variis auctoribus amultis erroribus expurgata is coming up for auction. It's a Dutch map, about 1632, of the Holy Land. The provenance isn't clear. Nor whether it is an original engraving. Where the colour came from is no business of mine, or of the vendor, or of the auctioneers. In short: Caveat emptor! But, for sure, it would grace any pretentious penthouse wall.

aq19118a.jpg
Meanwhile — to come to the point — that self-designed very stable genius, Donald Trump, withdrew a small cohort of US troops from northern Syria. That less stable Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who has systematically enhanced his dictatorship, has sent in his troops to establish a deep 'defensive' border. Which in turn pushes the Kurds into the maw of Assad. The Russians move in. Any remaining neutrals, well-wishers, and 'peace-keepers' gets to heck a.s.a.p.

To answer my own question:
Megiddo is somewhere adrift from Haifa. It is a tel (an accumulated heap of decayed mud structures) with a score of habitable layers, one above the other, where the Jezreel Valley makes it through the historically-strategic Carmel Range — for which reason its possession has been a marker all the way from Thutmose III (c.!5 BC) to Edmund Allenby (AD 1917).

So: we have already engaged the Syrians (with Russian and presumably Iranian support) in the area. The US are 'off games'. The Iranians are taking pot-shots at anything Saudi, or vaguely 'Western'. The Israelis take the coarse-rugby view that thrice-armed is he who gets his retaliation in first.

Are we agreed: this looks like fun?

So: what chance of an instructive thread?
 
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Rural

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Up the stairs, down the landing and it's the first on the right.

You're welcome. (y)
 

former wesleyan

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Somewere between Bessbrook and Crossmaglen.
 

Dearghoul

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My e-mail inbox compasses some very odd stuff. Some of it quite welcome.

So I receive notification that a colourised copy of Jacobus Tirinus' Chorographia Terrae Sanctae in angustiorem formam redacta et ex variis auctoribus amultis erroribus expurgata is coming up for auction. It's a Dutch map, about 1632, of the Holy Land. The provenance isn't clear. Nor whether it is an original engraving. Where the colour came from is no business of mine, or of the vendor, or of the auctioneers. In short: Caveat emptor! But, for sure, it would grace any pretentious penthouse wall.

aq19118a.jpg
Meanwhile — to come to the point — that self-designed very stable genius, Donald Trump, withdrew a small cohort of US troops from northern Syria. That less stable Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who has systematically enhanced his dictatorship, has sent in his troops to establish a deep 'defensive' border. Which in turn pushes the Kurds into the maw of Assad. The Russians move in. Any remaining neutrals, well-wishers, and 'peace-keepers' gets to heck a.s.a.p.

To answer my own question:
Megiddo is somewhere adrift from Haifa. It is a tel (an accumulated heap of decayed mud structures) with a score of habitable layers, one above the other, where the Jezreel Valley makes it through the historically-strategic Carmel Range — for which reason its possession has been a marker all the way from Thutmose III (c.!5 BC) to Edmund Allenby (AD 1917).

So: we have already engaged the Syrians (with Russian and presumably Iranian support) in the area. The US are 'off games'. The Iranians are taking pot-shots at anything Saudi, or vaguely 'Western'. The Israelis take the coarse-rugby view that thrice-armed is he who gets his retaliation in first.

Are we agreed: this looks like fun?

So: what chance of an instructive thread?
Interesting though that dutch map is Malcolm I thought that you were going to shift the location of Armageddon to the Turkish Syrian border, based on the always welcome, (to the History Channel), and indicative 'new research'.
 

Catahualpa

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My e-mail inbox compasses some very odd stuff. Some of it quite welcome.

So I receive notification that a colourised copy of Jacobus Tirinus' Chorographia Terrae Sanctae in angustiorem formam redacta et ex variis auctoribus amultis erroribus expurgata is coming up for auction. It's a Dutch map, about 1632, of the Holy Land. The provenance isn't clear. Nor whether it is an original engraving. Where the colour came from is no business of mine, or of the vendor, or of the auctioneers. In short: Caveat emptor! But, for sure, it would grace any pretentious penthouse wall.

aq19118a.jpg
Meanwhile — to come to the point — that self-designed very stable genius, Donald Trump, withdrew a small cohort of US troops from northern Syria. That less stable Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who has systematically enhanced his dictatorship, has sent in his troops to establish a deep 'defensive' border. Which in turn pushes the Kurds into the maw of Assad. The Russians move in. Any remaining neutrals, well-wishers, and 'peace-keepers' gets to heck a.s.a.p.

To answer my own question:
Megiddo is somewhere adrift from Haifa. It is a tel (an accumulated heap of decayed mud structures) with a score of habitable layers, one above the other, where the Jezreel Valley makes it through the historically-strategic Carmel Range — for which reason its possession has been a marker all the way from Thutmose III (c.!5 BC) to Edmund Allenby (AD 1917).

So: we have already engaged the Syrians (with Russian and presumably Iranian support) in the area. The US are 'off games'. The Iranians are taking pot-shots at anything Saudi, or vaguely 'Western'. The Israelis take the coarse-rugby view that thrice-armed is he who gets his retaliation in first.

Are we agreed: this looks like fun?

So: what chance of an instructive thread?
So will there be an Armageddon anytime soon in the Fertile Crescent?

Probably not.

The US never got involved there to protect the Kurds but to fight ISIS/ISIL

- they have now been defeated at least as far as any credible military threat goes.

It was always going to be messy extricating US boots on the ground as Obama should have known when he sent in the US Special Forces.

Of course as to be expected then conventional troops were sent to bolster them up.

The President made the right call getting out now because the longer they stayed then the more troops would end up there and it becomes permanent.

The Turks will get their buffer zone, Damascus gets back at least nominal control of a chunk of pre war Syria and the Kurds get a deal that effectively means a kind of semi Home Rule with the Turks anyway off their backs...

So long as no one loses face it should all settle down in the next couple of weeks into a messy compromise that no side actually likes that much but they can live with...

Anyway that's my take on it!
 

McTell

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No
It has an airport and a duty free shop

These are Signs



Malc, it must be on another map
 

Sangreel

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Here:


It is a hive world! Ruled by God Emperor Trump, the self-styled genius.

1571185765537.png


The more you know!
 
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Malcolm Redfellow

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Interesting though that dutch map is Malcolm I thought that you were going to shift the location of Armageddon to the Turkish Syrian border, based on the always welcome, (to the History Channel), and indicative 'new research'.
Truth or Consequences is a small town in New Mexico. I've never been there, but have it on the Bucket List (extended version) simply because of the name. Which was adopted ( 'Hot Springs') because of a '50s tv show competition.

The Truth in this case is, quite frankly, I always assumed Megiddo — although it's in the north of Israel — was even further north. The Consequences are that I framed that misunderstanding before I composed the post and checked the map. And the misunderstanding stuck.

Catahualpa's post, above, may have the legs. Except it wasn't, and isn't just US troops in the frying pan. On top of which there are all the do-gooders and NGO types left in the lurch.

It's also the case that Western/NATO strategy since the late '40s has essentially been to engage in local eruptions, lest they develop into something uncontrollably bigger. Trump's White House seems to have reverted to a kind of neo-isolationism. It didn't work in the 1920s-1930s, and it's not going to work in its re-invention.

I'm no enthusiast for war. That's in large part because, having just started at TCD, my parents' home in the UK received my call-up papers, and instruction to head for Catterick: one of the very last cohort to have that order. It cemented my commitment to Irish independence and neutrality.

So we have the Russians moving in. The Turks are guns-ho. The Syrians have scores to settle. I have a certain sympathy for the Kurds, who seem to get the wrong end of any deal — and the (totally pointless) Treaty of Sèvres (10 Aug 1920) promised a Kurdish homeland.

If I remember Revelation, chapter 16 (it's what choirboys read during the more boring sermons), Armageddon is all about the seventh angel pouring out the last Bowl of Wrath, and declaring 'It is done!'.

Good grief!
 
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Malcolm Redfellow

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If we take the Turkish-Kurdish situation seriously — and it deserves just that — then this op-ed piece in today's Washington Post deserves scrutiny.

Essentially, it poses two questions:
  • is there not some double-think, both in the US and among EU nations?
  • is there not a double standard, when we consider the (small, but growing) furore over Turkey, but the complaisance over Saudi bashing the Houthis?
In short, is it not the old political expediency of oil versus carrots? —

In 2017 alone, E.U. countries granted licenses to export arms to Saudi Arabia worth close to $19 billion.

That is especially noticeable when we look at Trump (who has form over his Turkish connection) promising sanctions on Turkey: steel imports to the US are four tenths of one percent of Turkey/US trade.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Based on the superstitions around this armageddon bus-stop in the middle east, if you were asked to relocate it you'd probably put it right back where it is. That whole region is probably the nuttiest on the planet.

I know that a lot of American money is backing the expansion of one player in the region and for reasons of superstition, too. The fruitier Americans in the fruitier States tend to want to hasten their apocalypse and a battle at armageddon is apparently one of the process milestones one has to see before mr jesus comes galloping out of the clouds on a white horse waving Excalibur all over the place and puts a full stop on everything, saving his mates and in his infinite mercy burning every other man, woman and child for eternity. Nice fellow. You'd like him.

The guy who wrote all that up as a prediction must have been on some mental LSD. If you haven't read Revelations I really would give it a go. It is available free in most hotel rooms it is so entertaining and it is cheaper than paying for a film.
 


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