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Rent allowance of €875 a month


sheehan

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
891
On the Live line now that a mother with a child is receiving €875 a month rent allowance. This is worth €14,000 before tax income I guess. Can the country afford this level of social welfare?
 


B

Boggle

On the Live line now that a mother with a child is receiving €875 a month rent allowance. This is worth €14,000 before tax income I guess. Can the country afford this level of social welfare?
No. Not only that but working people cannot afford those levels of rents either.
Bin it completely and let property markets fall to natural levels... they won't be left empty as 200 quid a month is better than nothing and half of all rented accommodation is paid for by the state. It's not like those on RA are an insignificant portion of the market.
 

rll69

Active member
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
178
My tax euro at work. Great.
 

laidback

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
1,134
This mother lost her job. the rate quoted is the Dublin rate for a property big enough for a woman and a child. her dole won't be enough to pay rent as well.

Should people like her be helped or left on the streets?

yes we are broke and the cost of rent allowance is huge (but a lot of the rent allowances comes back via income tax PRSI and USC on landlords).

More emphasis on job creation is needed so this woman can return to work and afford to pay rent.
 
G

Gimpanzee

On the Live line now that a mother with a child is receiving €875 a month rent allowance. This is worth €14,000 before tax income I guess. Can the country afford this level of social welfare?
how did you come up with 14k?
 

Twin Towers

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Messages
5,882
No. Not only that but working people cannot afford those levels of rents either.
Bin it completely and let property markets fall to natural levels... they won't be left empty as 200 quid a month is better than nothing and half of all rented accommodation is paid for by the state. It's not like those on RA are an insignificant portion of the market.
Let us hope there is a slashing of landlords dole in the budget, taxpayers are carrying the can supporting this nonsense that is inflating all rents.
 

Asparagus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
4,882
On the Live line now that a mother with a child is receiving €875 a month rent allowance. This is worth €14,000 before tax income I guess. Can the country afford this level of social welfare?
Did she contribute tax and PRSI to the countries coffers?
Is she unable to find work?
Would she take a job for 30k per annum if it meant losing her benefits?

If the answer is yes to all then the country can afford it as this woman has clearly signed up to a social contract to contribute.
If the answer is no then lets open some poor houses or get unmarried mothers etc back living with their parents.

Social welfare should be all about give and take. all take means you should get nothing.
 
B

Boggle

This mother lost her job. the rate quoted is the Dublin rate for a property big enough for a woman and a child. her dole won't be enough to pay rent as well.

Should people like her be helped or left on the streets?

yes we are broke and the cost of rent allowance is huge (but a lot of the rent allowances comes back via income tax PRSI and USC on landlords).

More emphasis on job creation is needed so this woman can return to work and afford to pay rent.
Why do you think Dublin is so expensive? Because of RA.
Otherwise the places would be rented at market rate, which is another way of saying what people can afford.

On the bright side, when she goes back to work she would still have a lower rent rather than paying stupid rates like today.
 
G

Gimpanzee

More emphasis on job creation is needed so this woman can return to work and afford to pay rent.
Emphasis? Couple of hundred thousand people could be back to work with a little more emphasis you say?

Well that's nice.
 

sheehan

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
891
I mean if you are working and paying tax, to pay 875 euro a month for rent (10,500 a year), you need to have a pre-tax income of 14,000 euro, assuming an income tax rate of 20% plus PRSI and income levies.

how did you come up with 14k?
 

gerhard dengler

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Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
47,517
The hard pressed PAYE home owner occupying is bailing out the wasters at the top end of the economy (bankers/property developers) and the wasters at the bottom (people who expect subsidised housing paid for by the taxpayer).

The hard pressed PAYE home owner occupier is being royally screwed by both sets of wasters.
 

Mushroom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
15,761
how did you come up with 14k?
€875 * 12 = €10,500

PAYE @ 20%: 10,500/0.8 = 13,128

Then, adding a notional USC of 5.5% to €13,128 gives ~ €13,850 - rounded to €14K.

The assumption used here is that the lady's income from her dole would absorb her tax credits and her entitlement to 0% USC.
 

laidback

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
1,134
Why do you think Dublin is so expensive? Because of RA.
Otherwise the places would be rented at market rate, which is another way of saying what people can afford.

On the bright side, when she goes back to work she would still have a lower rent rather than paying stupid rates like today.
I don't agree that Dublin is expensive due to rent allowance. City rents are always dearer than rents in small towns. Its all about location, proximity to jobs, public transport, and other facilities. the cost of buying property in cities is higher for the reasons mentioned so a city landlord has to charge more than a small town one to cover costs and make some sort of return.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
11,832
The Rent allowance, whilst paid temporarily to the recipient, the recipient then adds at least 20% more to that and then gives the increase figure to the landlord as far as I understand.

So if someone on RA got 1000 per month they would then add 200 to that and hand 1200 to a landlord.

So the bigger the RA paid to a recipient, the WORSE off they are financially.

Not many people seem to understand that.

It is a dole for LANDLORDS, not tenants.
 
B

Boggle

I don't agree that Dublin is expensive due to rent allowance. City rents are always dearer than rents in small towns. Its all about location, proximity to jobs, public transport, and other facilities. the cost of buying property in cities is higher for the reasons mentioned so a city landlord has to charge more than a small town one to cover costs and make some sort of return.
How can you not agree?

Do you not think that in a situation where half the available tenants had the amount of money available to pay on rents cut in half or to a quarter of it's current level that rents would adjust to compensate?
You cannot get blood out of a stone so if they don't have it any more then you either accept less of leave the house empty which is even less again.

Rents would still be higher than towns and villages because they would drop too. Remember, every penny spent on rent is money which could be spent locally so why are we spending a fortune to undermine local employment?
 

southwestkerry

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Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
4,229
The issue I think myself is landlords overpaid for property. Especially flats in years going by. Now as a result they need to charge at a level that can repay the loan.
Unrelated upwards only rent in commercial property causes as much grief.
As for rent allowance, if local county council had enough properties themselves to rent out they would be no need for rent allowance to be payed.
PS I might note that not all landlords well deal with RA
 

potholedogger

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
1,238
No. Not only that but working people cannot afford those levels of rents either.
Bin it completely and let property markets fall to natural levels... they won't be left empty as 200 quid a month is better than nothing and half of all rented accommodation is paid for by the state. It's not like those on RA are an insignificant portion of the market.
€200 a month would not cover wear and tear on a property!

Could a Dublin Local Authority provide housing for less then €875 per month?
 
B

Boggle

The issue I think myself is landlords overpaid for property. Especially flats in years going by. Now as a result they need to charge at a level that can repay the loan.
Unrelated upwards only rent in commercial property causes as much grief.
As for rent allowance, if local county council had enough properties themselves to rent out they would be no need for rent allowance to be payed.
How they pay for their property is their problem, not ours. Private business, private risk.
They'll still have the asset long after the mortgage is paid.

And we don't need that much social housing... prices will simply drop to match available rents.

If they don't, we can tax empty property until they do. No more messing around with excuses for keeping this farce in place.
 
Last edited:
B

Boggle

€200 a month would not cover wear and tear on a property!

Could a Dublin Local Authority provide housing for less then €875 per month?
Couldn't care less what it'd cover. Their problem, not mine.
Fact is, someone with 188 a week will not afford much more than 200 quid a month so they can rent or leave empty... their choice.
 

potholedogger

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
1,238
€875 * 12 = €10,500

PAYE @ 20%: 10,500/0.8 = 13,128

Then, adding a notional USC of 5.5% to €13,128 gives ~ €13,850 - rounded to €14K.

The assumption used here is that the lady's income from her dole would absorb her tax credits and her entitlement to 0% USC.
A family of two adults and four kids would need a lot of income, in employment, to be better off, than on the dole with rent allowance.
 

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