Repeal the 27th

Breanainn

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The 27th Amendment to the Constitution in 2004 removed the automatic right to Irish citizenship for children born on the island of Ireland where both parents were foreign nationals, largely on the grounds of "birth tourism", that immigrants were allegedly travelling to Ireland in the advanced stages of pregnancy specifically to benefit such offering.

Yet in the intervening period since the referendum, there have been numerous high-profile cases where, because of the length of the immigration processes, and the various appeals within same, families faced with deportation have had children entirely born and raised in Ireland. The impact of the 27th remains a subject of debatable impact, but it might have greater efficacy on control and reform of the immigration process, if repeal of the amendment was accompanied by streamlining procedures to limit the number of appeals made by an applicant, the speeding up of the process not only expediting deportations, but enabling the progressive dismantling of direct provision.
 


LISTOWEL MAN

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if you live here for years, work and pay your way then you deserve to be "irish"
 

McSlaggart

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The 27th Amendment to the Constitution in 2004 removed the automatic right to Irish citizenship for children born on the island of Ireland where both parents were foreign nationals, largely on the grounds of "birth tourism", that immigrants were allegedly travelling to Ireland in the advanced stages of pregnancy specifically to benefit such offering.

Yet in the intervening period since the referendum, there have been numerous high-profile cases where, because of the length of the immigration processes, and the various appeals within same, families faced with deportation have had children entirely born and raised in Ireland. The impact of the 27th remains a subject of debatable impact, but it might have greater efficacy on control and reform of the immigration process, if repeal of the amendment was accompanied by streamlining procedures to limit the number of appeals made by an applicant, the speeding up of the process not only expediting deportations, but enabling the progressive dismantling of direct provision.

They can simply apply for citizenship as you would in any other EU state.
 

talkingshop

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The 27th Amendment to the Constitution in 2004 removed the automatic right to Irish citizenship for children born on the island of Ireland where both parents were foreign nationals, largely on the grounds of "birth tourism", that immigrants were allegedly travelling to Ireland in the advanced stages of pregnancy specifically to benefit such offering.

Yet in the intervening period since the referendum, there have been numerous high-profile cases where, because of the length of the immigration processes, and the various appeals within same, families faced with deportation have had children entirely born and raised in Ireland. The impact of the 27th remains a subject of debatable impact, but it might have greater efficacy on control and reform of the immigration process, if repeal of the amendment was accompanied by streamlining procedures to limit the number of appeals made by an applicant, the speeding up of the process not only expediting deportations, but enabling the progressive dismantling of direct provision.
I don’t see any need to remove it as it only stops an automatic right to citizenship. We can still legislate to grant citizenship in appropriate cases.
 

raetsel

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I don’t see any need to remove it as it only stops an automatic right to citizenship. We can still legislate to grant citizenship in appropriate cases.
How much does it cost to apply, though?
In the UK, the last I heard was that it was around a thousand pounds.
Considering that in various parts of the UK, (NI) included, over 50% of the population have less than £100 in savings. In effect that means that many people who came to the UK as children and worked here all their lives could never afford the luxury. The recent Windrush scandal was a consequence of that for many.
Citizenship shouldn't be a privilege only for the reasonably well off.
 

Dame_Enda

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We should keep the 27th. Quite apart from the abuse of the system that medical professionals reported at the time, with over 20% of births in some hospitals being non-Irish mothers (despite non nationals being closer to 10% back then), and the Chen Case 2003, where the ECJ ruled that the parent of an EU citizen gets certain rights associated with EU citizenship like free movement in all member states - there is also the strong case that whatever the citizenship law is, it is more flexible to decide it in the Oireachtas rather than in the Constitution. The 27th Amendment allows the Oireachtas to legislate for citizenship.

In one year in the early 2000s we had 11,000 people claiming asylum. It fell precipitously after the amendment, and while it has risen recently, this is likely Brexit related.
 

stopdoingstuff

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No. Under no circumstances. Europe and the UK are turning into third world sh1tholes. Ireland must not go the same way.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I sense there may be a market-based solution. Let the free market do its thing and solve problems for us. What I mean by that is that i envisage a sort of internal market where EU nations can trade immigrants and refugees. The more useful you are economically to the host nation the more likely they will want to hold on to you. You could be their ace in the hole. 100 Pull Up A Chair Points.

If however you are a nineteen year old child who has deserted from some gang or warlord in sh1t-strewn Goatskyavotzsplut and are desperate to make it to anywhere with a social security net and to be warm and snug in a system, any system, then you might only be worth a hundredth of Useful Boris who has a work ethic.

You could have an index, package up some derivatives, this time next year we'll all be millionaires. Kushti.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Mom & Pop sales. Over the counter COHB (Coming Over Here Bonds) sold to the average small investor as well as the big boys. Mrs Murphy of Coolock could be exposed to conflict in the Balkans and an offset in 10,000 COHB on the spot R & I Market (Refugees and Immigrants) would certainly bring stability to her portfolio.
 


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